I think the 3.6% unemployment rate, which I believe is considered full employment, explains why there are school custodian jobs unfilled.Originally Posted by Ron Selzer
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I think the 3.6% unemployment rate, which I believe is considered full employment, explains why there are school custodian jobs unfilled.
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Work with a custodian in his 20's. He bought a 4 bedroom house in a decent sub development built early 90's. Lived in his mom's basement while saving up money for 20% down. Drives a beater car not something nice, stays out of the bars and clubs.
Had new roof and solar panels installed last year, electric bill now less than a dollar for a month over 6 months of the year. According to people on here no way should he have been able to do that. All that matters is how important something is to the individual, can't have Starbucks every day, bars and clubs every weekend, leasing new car every two years, etc. Have a secretary in the district, who her and her husband didn't have a working furnace until Feb a few years back due to new clothes, bars and clubbing, new vehicles were what mattered to them. Those are the people that cry they can't afford a house.
Ron
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I just checked on online mortgage calcuator. With a $50,000 salary and a 20% down payment, the most I could qualify for was $163,00. Whats the future of a public school janitor? Nothing wrong with the work, but I suspect there's not a lot of potential earnings growth there which is likely why the job remains unfilled. That and some people just don't want to scrub toilets.
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This is just not an option for everyone.
Most of the friends I knew were all working, and on their own shortly out of high school.
This notion of, don't waste your money on frivolous things and save, while living free off your parents, just does not apply for most people.
Economic conditions, family dynamics, geography, they're all different for everyone. One size does not fit all.
Just because someone makes 40k per year does not mean after ten years they have 400k, even if they're living free in your moms basement.
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Throwing different things out there. All of my friends graduated high school, none went on to college. Yet somehow most of us managed to buy houses, a few went to prison for dealing drugs and I lost track of them. I bought the new built house I live in, June 1999 with single income, wife was in between colleges, it is paid for now. Divorce and market crash 2008, just had to put my head down and work a lot of overtime and side jobs. You have to do what's necessary. Both kids went to college along with 2cd wife who divorced me after getting four years of college and a master's degree. 401k's, savings bonds gone to pay towards her college. No vacations for years, still none. Retirement, forget about it, flew past 66 birthday and keep on working, can't quit. However I don't cry about it. I made my choices some good some bad and I live with them.
First wife, no college, retired 6 years ago, travels the world as she wants, worth over a million now. Saved and did without unimportant things to get there.
ALL IN WANT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE.
I see in the young generation all along as I get older. The ones that want to buy a house do without other things to get there.
The ones that have to be in the bars and clubs, always have new cars/trucks, latest clothes, cry about how unfair life is. Somebody needs to pay for their college, someone needs to give them a better house than their parents have now.
Ron
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I agree that it boils down to "what you want to do with your life", "not everybody's the same", and people should be prepared to do some work.
OTOH, I do not agree that working lots of overtime, side jobs, not participating in social activities, no reasonable retirement age is "living".
There are lots of people, such as single parents, that do work extra shifts, extra jobs and these days it is often not even enough to get by.
I'll go out on a limb and risk ridicule, but I think the housing problem has been severely worsened by families having 2 instead of the traditional 1 income. Their increased income has facilitated increased housing prices.
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Really? "Always?" Let's just ignore the ultra-skyrocketing costs of housing, higher education and everything else and blame the victims. Yeah, everyone who is poor due to their own fault and everyone has the same opportunities in life; NOT! This reminds me of all those BS YouTube videos telling people if they stopped drinking Starbucks coffee they will have a $100,000 in no time. Dorks.
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A lot of this analysis varies dramatically based on location. I say this in terms of both sides of the equation, one being income opportunity and the other being cost of housing/living.
Interest rates for mortgages are an important factor, but for the purposes of evaluating pure affordability, it is not hard to look at the ratio over time between income and housing prices. This is basically what Doug has pointed out above. Over time, that ratio has spread significantly, meaning housing is much less affordable in relation to income today versus in the past. Personally I think those of us that got in when we did should be a little bit grateful, and the younger generation that is trying to get a foothold in today's economics deserve a little bit of empathy. Consider education and medical cost, and the picture becomes even worse. Maybe not much of a concern for those of us now on Medicare and/or who obtained their education when it cost 1/10 of what it costs today.
Again, this can vary a lot from location to location. And there are always plenty of anecdotal specific examples or outliers that will make any case you like, but don't let those distract you from a larger trend.
What I am referencing above is more of an average scenario in urban areas nationwide.
Last edited by Edwin Santos; 11-21-2023 at 1:33 PM.
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What are the three most important things in real estate? Location, location, location.
Ron posted " NO house in my 800+ home sub devolpment sells for over 350k. One just listed for 234k. " Ok convert that to Canadian dollars that's about $480 Cnd and $320 Cnd. In my area you can't buy a vacant lot for those prices, the average home price is $1.3 million Cnd and it's not a high end neighbourhood. The average school custodian makes about $50k (which is 25% above the national average), don't think too many custodians are buying $1.3 million dollar homes.
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As I've said, you can make numbers say what you want.
Look at the median home prices by state.
State Price Alabama $286,000 Alaska $384,000 Arizona $443,000 Arkansas $259,000 California $799,000 Colorado $582,000 Connecticut $432,000 Delaware $335,000 District of Columbia $606,000 Florida $409,000 Georgia $376,000 Hawaii $713,000 Idaho $460,000 Illinois $295,000 Indiana $258,000 Iowa $239,000 Kansas $282,000 Kentucky $257,000 Louisiana $260,000 Maine $389,000 Maryland $433,000 Massachusetts $640,000 Michigan $260,000 Minnesota $353,000 Mississippi $263,000 Missouri $267,000 Montana $527,000 Nebraska $296,000 Nevada $437,000 New Hampshire $468,000 New Jersey $498,000 New Mexico $354,000 New York $531,000 North Carolina $378,000 North Dakota $308,000 Ohio $249,000 Oklahoma $256,000 Oregon $510,000 Pennsylvania $300,000 Rhode Island $471,000 South Carolina $381,000 South Dakota $332,000 Tennessee $385,000 Texas $362,000 Utah $545,000 Vermont $390,000 Virginia $445,000 Washington $621,000 West Virginia $297,000 Wisconsin $307,000 Wyoming $323,000
Some of the prices mentioned in this thread are in the lowest brackets.
CA has the highest, at three times the prices of a few other states. Are the wages three times higher, he asks rhetorically. It is, what it is.
You can only ever change your circumstance to a certain degree, otherwise you play the cards you're dealt.
I've lived in 5 different states, they all have their pros and cons.
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Agreed and several Millennials I know, with good paying jobs and dual income households, accept the fact that home ownership, at least at this phase of their lives, is out of reach. So they save some money for future retirement (one works for a financial planner), and enjoy life with the rest of their money.
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I think it becomes more interesting to take Edward's data and add in the income per capita and calculate the ratio. Historically for financial planners a 4x ratio was a good rule of thumb for affordability, but now almost all states are above that. I don't have any Canadian data on hand, but having visited there, I would guess the greater Vancouver area to easily be >10 these days.
If you're interested, I found an interesting site that charted the ratio of affordability over time. You can see on this chart that other than the housing bubble in 2006, we are WAY higher than historical norms right now. https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-...hold%20income.
State Price Per Capita Income Ratio of Home Price/Income Alabama $286,000 50,916 5.62 Alaska $384,000 68,635 5.59 Arizona $443,000 58,442 7.58 Arkansas $259,000 52,618 4.92 California $799,000 77,036 10.37 Colorado $582,000 75,722 7.69 Connecticut $432,000 82,938 5.21 Delaware $335,000 63,243 5.30 District of Columbia $606,000 95,970 6.31 Florida $409,000 64,806 6.31 Georgia $376,000 56,589 6.64 Hawaii $713,000 61,779 11.54 Idaho $460,000 56,614 8.13 Illinois $295,000 67,655 4.36 Indiana $258,000 58,323 4.42 Iowa $239,000 60,222 3.97 Kansas $282,000 60,424 4.67 Kentucky $257,000 51,921 4.95 Louisiana $260,000 54,501 4.77 Maine $389,000 60,599 6.42 Maryland $433,000 70,228 6.17 Massachusetts $640,000 84,561 7.57 Michigan $260,000 57,038 4.56 Minnesota $353,000 68,840 5.13 Mississippi $263,000 46,370 5.67 Missouri $267,000 57,818 4.62 Montana $527,000 60,984 8.64 Nebraska $296,000 64,268 4.61 Nevada $437,000 62,085 7.04 New Hampshire $468,000 73,910 6.33 New Jersey $498,000 77,199 6.45 New Mexico $354,000 52,194 6.78 New York $531,000 75,407 7.04 North Carolina $378,000 58,109 6.51 North Dakota $308,000 70,360 4.38 Ohio $249,000 57,777 4.31 Oklahoma $256,000 56,298 4.55 Oregon $510,000 62,303 8.19 Pennsylvania $300,000 64,506 4.65 Rhode Island $471,000 63,557 7.41 South Carolina $381,000 53,618 7.11 South Dakota $332,000 68,176 4.87 Tennessee $385,000 58,292 6.60 Texas $362,000 62,586 5.78 Utah $545,000 59,457 9.17 Vermont $390,000 63,039 6.19 Virginia $445,000 68,985 6.45 Washington $621,000 75,332 8.24 West Virginia $297,000 49,993 5.94 Wisconsin $307,000 61,475 4.99 Wyoming $323,000 73,248 4.41
Last edited by Edwin Santos; 11-21-2023 at 5:01 PM.
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"The median household income in Vancouver is $86,988, which translates to being able to afford a purchase price of $347,000 with an insured mortgage or $411,000 with an uninsured mortgage. Meanwhile, the average price of a Vancouver home is $1,211,700. "
That makes the ratio 13.9, well north of 10 and West Vancouver where the real money is, the ratio is about 17. But that pales in comparison to Shanghai China at 43.8 which explains why so much of Vancouver's real estate is owned by Chinese nationals which is one of the reasons Vancouver real estate values are so high.
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today's average homes are nearly double the square footage of those built in the 70s. Modern homes often feature more bathrooms, ..elaborate kitchens, ..and outdoor living spaces. ....some friends recently remodeled their kitchen, and their cost was four times what we paid for our first home...there's a slew of other reasons young people are screwed when it comes to buying a new home especially first time buyers.. and you guys know why
wow, I just read the OPno where near on topic...
Last edited by Lawrence Duckworth; 11-21-2023 at 8:57 PM. Reason: read the OP :)
Kindness Every Day......All Day
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I would not have been able to afford a median priced home, but I was able to buy a house in a tax auction and completely repair it. I'm self employed and have no credit history at all, so a mortgage was not going to happen. I've spent about $95,000 at this point, which includes a new septic system, all new plumbing and wiring, complete spray foam insulation, all new windows, doors, woodwork, flooring, some roofs, a woodshed, a new 16x32 workshop, two wood stoves and a mini split, new porches, new cabinets in the kitchen, etc. I spent all the money I had saved up beforehand and a bit more over time, but now at age 37 I have a ~900 sf house that is largely new inside and all paid for, and I only have to pay taxes, insurance, electricity and internet. This would not have been financially feasible if I had dependents, unless I had a more lucrative career, or if I didn't have the skills to do most of the work myself (other than the septic system and spray foam).
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