I need to build a new shooting board. And I need to go 'big.'

[Warren Mickley]

The late, much missed, David Charlesworth emphasised first planing a hollow before planing the board flat (or with a fine hollow). There is always a hump in the centre if the ends do not close, and a plane will follow the curve ... the shorter the plane and the longer the board, the greater the chance of this occuring. This is the rationale behind long jointers - they are less likely to follow a curve.

I don't think Charlesworth had much experience planing edges by hand. I watched a video in which he planes an edge and ends up .002 hollow and then says "I consider this straight" Really? Can you imagine trying to do a rub joint with two such "straight" boards?

Then he says "I think its a remarkable tolerance for a hand tool on timber". It is not remarkable; it is pitiful. It is reasonable to expect no light to be seen under a straight edge. There is no point in having a Starrett straight edge if you are not going to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPP6-0jkws

[Eric Brown]

My benchtop measures 24 inches front to rear. For my next project I have a plank of American Beech 14 1/8 inches wide, but I am going to have to joint both edges. I do not want to rip the board, run it through my electric planer and then glue it back together, I want to use it full width.

My current shooting board can handle stock up to about 6 inches wide max.

The biggest piece I will need to shoot should be around 14 inches wide by 51 inches long. So some kind of bench hook to help hold the board level on the shooting board?

I do also have some glued up panels of similar size on my build list for future projects, so I just want to go big and be done.

Is there a shooting board design online you particularly like? How many clamps is enough? I am done trying to hold a piece of stock down with one hand while shooting with the other hand. I am going to be using some clamps.

Thanks

Attachment 511216

OK, I have a solution for you. Take a interior door off somewhere and modify it into a shooting board. That way, when you are done using it, you can re-hang it and it will be out of the way. Too much?

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK, I have a solution for you. Take a interior door off somewhere and modify it into a shooting board. That way, when you are done using it, you can re-hang it and it will be out of the way. Too much?

Best post I've read this week. I like your style.

No. Not too much. In fact, you forgot a key detail: switch to pintle hinges for quick setup.

[Joshua Lucas]

I don't think Charlesworth had much experience planing edges by hand. I watched a video in which he planes an edge and ends up .002 hollow and then says "I consider this straight" Really? Can you imagine trying to do a rub joint with two such "straight" boards?

Then he says "I think its a remarkable tolerance for a hand tool on timber". It is not remarkable; it is pitiful. It is reasonable to expect no light to be seen under a straight edge. There is no point in having a Starrett straight edge if you are not going to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPP6-0jkws

From my limited exposure to Charlesworth my impression is that he is rather overrated but I feel you're finding fault just to find fault. Two thousandths of an inch is a perfectly acceptable tolerance for practically anything made of wood. Between overnight variations in humidity, internal stresses, and the water in your glue you can count on the wood moving far more than two thou.

[mike stenson]

From my limited exposure to Charlesworth my impression is that he is rather overrated but I feel you're finding fault just to find fault. Two thousandths of an inch is a perfectly acceptable tolerance for practically anything made of wood. Between overnight variations in humidity, internal stresses, and the water in your glue you can count on the wood moving far more than two thou.

It's significantly tighter tolerances than the Hammer planer/thicknesser I just purchased.

[Derek Cohen]

I don't think Charlesworth had much experience planing edges by hand. I watched a video in which he planes an edge and ends up .002 hollow and then says "I consider this straight" Really? Can you imagine trying to do a rub joint with two such "straight" boards?

Then he says "I think its a remarkable tolerance for a hand tool on timber". It is not remarkable; it is pitiful. It is reasonable to expect no light to be seen under a straight edge. There is no point in having a Starrett straight edge if you are not going to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPP6-0jkws

Well Warren, I wonder what David Charlesworth would say about your technique? ... Oh, that's right, we have never seen you planing anything! Anyway, he was a gentleman and would not acted as you do.

There are many ways to skin a cat. David argued that is was more reliable to make a slight spring joint than a straight rub joint - which is why he planed the hollow. He argued that it was possible to end up with a bump when attempting to plane flat .... as Tony appears to have done on his long edge joint ... and it was therefore preferable to plane a hollow. By hollow he refers to a 2/1000" over 20" (in the video to which you linked).

Good teacher, David was.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Well Warren, I wonder what David Charlesworth would say about your technique? ... Oh, that's right, we have never seen you planing anything! Anyway, he was a gentleman and would not acted as you do.

There are many ways to skin a cat. David argued that is was more reliable to make a slight spring joint than a straight rub joint - which is why he planed the hollow. He argued that it was possible to end up with a bump when attempting to plane flat .... as Tony appears to have done on his long edge joint ... and it was therefore preferable to plane a hollow. By hollow he refers to a 2/1000" over 20" (in the video to which you linked).

Good teacher, David was.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I generally follow David’s techniques and have had good luck. The 8 foot plus made me abandon them because I don’t have a plane long enough not to make too big a hollow. He was helpful to me personally through this forum and through email. He will be missed.

[Warren Mickley]

Well Warren, I wonder what David Charlesworth would say about your technique?

David Charlesworth said that my techniques were irrelevant because they were not designed for beginners. I think he tended to reject any technique that could not be done on the first try by someone who sat at a desk for some decades.

One time he told me personally that if I planed an edge flat and then took five complete shavings the edge would develop a "bump" as he called it. That afternoon I happened to be joining two boards, so after getting them ready for gluing, I took five savings and they still matched. Ten more and they still matched. In all I took off 100 shavings, then I got tired of the game and glued them.

[Derek Cohen]

Warren, this is the kettle calling the pot black. You refer to David Charlesworth as rejecting other techniques, but you do this. He was geared towards developing skills in beginners, nevertheless his advice was considered sound by advanced woodworkers over decades. You offer criticisms of the technique of everyone who differs from yourself, but never offer actiual advice what to do instead. You just say, "find out for yourself".

Incidentally, I do not view David as rigid - witness his conversion to the closed chipbreaker when it was discussed a decade ago. At the time he was well-known adherent of a high backbevel. Contrast this with the stands taken by two other teachers, Sellers and Cosman, neither of whom accept this method.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Winners]

I appreciate the "use a door" idea. I may choose to do something like that someday.

My current plan is to build a pair of essentially oversized bench hooks. I have a picture of a mock up:

20231130_164519.jpg

Foreground is a thing I have learned to call a bench hook. It has a down hanging bit at one end that hooks onto the front face of the bench, and an upwards protruding bit to push stock up against, especially handy for sawing pieces too small for my leg vise.

For the mockup I used to planks of 4/4 cherry as the foundation. Long enough to be clamped down to the bench at the back with the wooden handled clamps.

On top of the cherry boards I have some 1/4 inch poplar for the workpiece to rest on, with adequate runway space on each side to accommodate, in this mockup, two block planes.

The two red/ clear/ blue screwdriver handles are intended to be stand-ins for the eventual back fences to be installed perpendicular to the plane sole after the poplar has been "run in" with the wee rabbet.

Using 4/4 stock for the base plates allows (should allow) me to clamp two panels that are supposed to be identical length to each other (with three end grains already shot) and shoot the proud end to flush rather than measure.

I think I have enough 6mm/ one quarter inch BB plywood to replace the poplar, but I don't see any 3/4 inch BB ply on my scrap cart tonight.

For especially long panels I made need a scrap or two the same thickness as the shooting hooks to support the middles of the panels.

At the end of it, if it works, I should be able to hang two somewhat oversized but moderately light weight bench hooks on a nail somewhere and not have to wrestle with a door.

[mike stenson]

Thats essentially what I did when I made the cherry credenza. It worked well enough. Although, Derek's big board may be copied, once I'm done with yet another show reiteration.

[Rafael Herrera]

From my limited exposure to Charlesworth my impression is that he is rather overrated but I feel you're finding fault just to find fault. Two thousandths of an inch is a perfectly acceptable tolerance for practically anything made of wood. Between overnight variations in humidity, internal stresses, and the water in your glue you can count on the wood moving far more than two thou.

When joining two edges for a seamless joint using an array of clamps to close the gaps, two thousands might be ok. Doing better than that simplifies things, allowing you to do rubbed joints, for example.

It may require some practice, but it certainly is not an unattainable skill. It was done routinely in times past with less high tech equipment, we can at the very least reproduce it with the tools available.

Also, I don't think it is beeing suggested that one should build furniture to better than two thousand tolerance, that's absurd. Use accuracy where it counts and simplify your work.

[Jim Koepke]

Also, I don't think it is beeing suggested that one should build furniture to better than two thousand tolerance, that's absurd.

Do your boards edge join without light shining through?

Do your dovetails go together tight, without gaps?

Do your mortise and tenon joints go together without unsightly gaps?

Does your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bedpost over night? (okay, ignore this one, I couldn't resist)

All of the above? (except the last one) Then you may be working to tolerances of less than 0.002" without even knowing it.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

What I had in mind was that not all of the parts would be expected to be built to such small tolerances. That's why I said to achieve precision where it mattered.

Yeah, my jointed boards don't have gaps, but my dovetails and other joints? No, they're not that good.