A whole new perspective on Lie-Nielsen Hand Planes

[Mark Gibney]

Great video. Such an intensive process, with such care taken at each step.
I'll take my LN low angle jack plane out later and bat my eyelids at it.

[Tom Bender]

I worked as a mechanical engineer in a big foundry. Designing ventilation, conveyors etc meant getting close to all the operations. Cotton clothing was required because it will not melt onto skin and is not very combustable. Very tight fitting safety glasses were required, especially in the finishing department where huge shot blasting machines leaked a bit. A stinging whack in the face was common. In the Melt Shop, spilled iron would splash really far, much further than water would go. Tiny drops would burn little holes in clothes but tended to bounce off skin. After a decade there all my work clothed, including socks and underwear had holes. Except for my leather shoes, they only had holes in the laces.

The people close to the molten iron had heavy reflective clothing which they wore as needed. Rules? It was a long time ago.

Lung protection? that was my job and I loved it.

[Warren Mickley]

There certainly are issues with Lie Nielsen planes, but they have more to do with design than manufacturing. The limiting factor is their knowledge of planing.

[Phil Gaudio]

There certainly are issues with Lie Nielsen planes, but they have more to do with design than manufacturing. The limiting factor is their knowledge of planing.

Warren: please expand on this issue of their "knowledge of planing". Phil

[Warren Mickley]

Some quick notes:

Blade: Lie Nielsen made a thicker blade than the Bailey design and bragged about it as a positive feature. At the time may gurus claimed that thick blades would eliminate tear out, and some even made blades 1/4inch thick. It is a fallacy.

Steel: Lie Nielsen continues to use A2 steel for plane irons even though the edge forms small chips, and it does not get as sharp as carbon steel. The advantages are way outweighed by the disadvantages and the planes with these irons underperform.

Cap Iron: Lie Nielsen made an "improved chipbreaker" which eliminated the traditional hump and renders it ineffective. On one early model the "improved chipbreaker" was so short that if it was put up near the edge of the iron, the iron could not protrude enough to cut wood. They continue to promote high angle planing, a clumsy remedy for tearout. It could be they suppress cap iron knowledge in order to sell high angle planes, but I have always thought it just ignorance
on their part.

Weight: Lie Nielsen chose the Bedrock design for their planes even though it was historically never very popular. The price of used Bedrock planes is higher than standard planes, but this is more because of their rarity and collectors wanting a complete set. The Lie Nielsen planes are even heavier than the Bedrock line. A common fallacy of previous years was that a heavy plane has more momentum to "power through the cut". The momentum does not come out of thin air; it arises from the work of the guy wielding the plane. Heavy planes are clumsier and more tiring.

[Edward Weber]

Interesting video showing all that goes into producing a plane. I was very surprised with the lack of safety in the foundry. There was very little appropriate safety clothes or.other safety items. One guy was even wearing a short sleeve shirt. I worked with liquid steel and know how dangerous it is and would not come near it with what they had on

I just got around to watching this and had the exact same thoughts.
i'm sure all of these guys have been doing this for years blah, blah blah. This place is a safety nightmare, someone needs to call CCOHS.

[Phil Gaudio]

I just got around to watching this and had the exact same thoughts.
i'm sure all of these guys have been doing this for years blah, blah blah. This place is a safety nightmare, someone needs to call CCOHS.

Those "down easters' are a pretty tough crew.

[Charles Edward]

Meanwhile a real working furnituremaker with verifiable bona fides, happy to show his work, can be seen using Lie-Nielsen planes in practically every one of these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/@Doucetteandwolfefurniture

I guess he's just stumbling his way to some of the best reproduction work on the planet.

[Mike Brady]

Gosh, Warren Mickley, I don't understand how LN has made it this far without your expertise. Mr. Lie-Nielsen must feel crushed by criticism. Your work must me be exceptional, except I don't recall ever seeing even one photo of yours in these, or any, pages.

[steven c newman]

Warren might not even like the saw I'm using..
Poplar Box Project, sitting down on the job.JPG
While just sitting down on the Job...

[Mike Henderson]

Beautiful work, but being one of the workers, doing the same thing over and over on an assembly line would drive me crazy.

Mike

[steven c newman]

BTDT....Gray Iron ain't that fun...BTW

[steven c newman]

Gray Iron.....parts for Pipe Wrenches, small vise castings, blanks for Browning Gears, small fishing boat anchors...LARGE water valves...Shake out/ inspection...molder's assistant...hydraulic brake master cylinders....

2 summers worth...

[Derek Cohen]

Some quick notes:

Blade: Lie Nielsen made a thicker blade than the Bailey design and bragged about it as a positive feature. At the time may gurus claimed that thick blades would eliminate tear out, and some even made blades 1/4inch thick. It is a fallacy.

Steel: Lie Nielsen continues to use A2 steel for plane irons even though the edge forms small chips, and it does not get as sharp as carbon steel. The advantages are way outweighed by the disadvantages and the planes with these irons underperform.

Cap Iron: Lie Nielsen made an "improved chipbreaker" which eliminated the traditional hump and renders it ineffective. On one early model the "improved chipbreaker" was so short that if it was put up near the edge of the iron, the iron could not protrude enough to cut wood. They continue to promote high angle planing, a clumsy remedy for tearout. It could be they suppress cap iron knowledge in order to sell high angle planes, but I have always thought it just ignorance
on their part.

Weight: Lie Nielsen chose the Bedrock design for their planes even though it was historically never very popular. The price of used Bedrock planes is higher than standard planes, but this is more because of their rarity and collectors wanting a complete set. The Lie Nielsen planes are even heavier than the Bedrock line. A common fallacy of previous years was that a heavy plane has more momentum to "power through the cut". The momentum does not come out of thin air; it arises from the work of the guy wielding the plane. Heavy planes are clumsier and more tiring.

Warren, there is much you write with which I agree. Also some factors which are not relevant.

Firstly that 5/16" thick blade. I agree with you that it is unnecessarily thick, but I have a good idea why it is so, and will remain so. Why 5/16"? Well, that is how thick infill planes, such as Spier, Mathieson and Norris, would use. The Stanley #4 1/2 was designed to compete with these infills, and it is not a big leap to understand the choice of 5/16" thickness for a line of premier hand planes.

Further, at the time of these first bench planes being constructed by LN, the consensus belief was that tear out was best controlled by either/both a tight mouth and a higher cutting angle. Infill planes used 47 degrees, and cutting angles around 50-55 were considered "high" (outside Australia, where 60 degrees would be better for the local hardwoods). The thicker blades were never for tear out, but for controlling chatter, and they continue to do this very well. But is is overkill. My LN planes - a #3 and a #4 1/2 Anniversary - came with A2 5/16" blades, but I use 1/8" PM-V11 in them.

So why does the 5/16" thick blades continue (with other modern makers as well)? Two reasons I can think of: one is that there is the perception by buyers that "thicker is better". The other is that a thinner blade will require some re-tooling by LN. Yes, the frog can be adjusted to close the mouth, but there is not a lot of adjustment length to do this.

The higher mass of the LN (compared with Stanley) is not significant if you are an amateur and use machines as well. "Lighter is better" is only a factor is using these planes for extended periods. For the average amateur, the extra mass is really quite handy .... I am not saying that more mass creates a better working plane - mass has no part to play here ... I am saying that more mass increases control when all one is doing is smoothing or jointing.

I think that criticisms over the chipbreaker are overdone. Yes, there may have been years of production of short chipbreakers, ones that do not close up for planing interlocked grain. However the part played by the chipbreaker really only became understood by most (myself included) from 2012. I still do not see LN-made videos offering advice about setting up a hand plane with the chipbreaker. Like you, I perceive that they view higher cutting angles - by way of higher angled frogs - to tame tear out. Everyone has copied the "Improved Chipbreaker", and there has not been any progress in its design. What I see missing is some curve to the body. These chipbreakers are too flat and, when tightened down, the leading edge can open up. The leading edge is 30 degrees, which is far too low for function. I add some bend to the body. I also add a curved leading edge of around 75-80 degrees.

I still do not like the Stanley-style of chipbreaker. They are too thin - too floppy - for my liking, and either open up at the leading edge, or creep forward when tightened down.

A2 steel is not my favourite, although it still performs very well. I would prefer O1 for the fine edge it can achieve. However O1 simply struggles to hold an edge in my local woods, and PM-V11 is the best compromise for quality of edge, both fineness of the grain and edge holding.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charles Edward]

God-awful piece of garbage:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aJ7-QekNhWs