Which Tail Vise for new Roubo

[David Carroll]

Bees wax is the best thing for wooden vises. Lasts a long time before needing a new application. Smooth and quiet.

When I first got the Sjobergs bench, I used graphite to lubricate the screws. It worked fine, except it turned them black. I don't know where I heard that that advice, but I don't recommend it. When Howard's feed n' wax (a mixture of orange oil and beeswax) came out, I tried that on the screws. I used it to "wash" off as much of the now embedded graphite as I could. It took awhile but much of it did come out. Now at the first sign of squeaking I apply a coat of that. It works great!

DC

[Richard Verwoest]

Hello Jim,

Bench dogs and doe's feet work great on round objects. I have not done much mortising, but I think I have seen a fixture using wedges for this.

Richard

[Reed Gray]

If I had wood screws on my vice, I would not use bees wax. From a bowl turning background, carnauba wax offers far better moisture protection and longevity. Kiwi Neutral shoe polish is carnauba wax. Butchers bowling alley wax is also mostly carnauba. Not sure what all is in Johnson's paste wax.

robo hippy

[Tony Wilkins]

Is Will Myers still selling the wagon vise he put on his Moravian? That might be an option if he is

[Tom Bussey]

The first two pictures are of the front and back of my bench. Personally I prefer a face vise and a tail vise. I put a leg vise and a wagon vise on the back side. Probable 80 percent of the time, it is the tail vise with bench dogs that I use. The wagon vise with bench dogs would probably see more use if it wasn't on the back side. The wagon vise will do almost everything the tail vise will do.

DSC03405.JPG DSC03415.JPG

Next is using a face vise with a holdfast. and clamping to a side using holdfasts, as well as using a moxon vise.

DSC03267.JPG DSC03268.JPGDSC03270.JPG

Then there is the tail vise, as well a a leg vise and holdfast DSC03263.JPG on the left hand side of the bench as well as just using hold fasts.

DSC03274.JPG DSC03263.JPG

[Tom Bussey]

I had to leave so I thought I would finish . Most hobby woodworkers consider themselves lucky if they can get 4 hours a week in the shop. Some get more than others. I think Derick is a professional and if he is, he gets a lot of shop time, And what is cheap for a professional because time is money, is highly expensive for the hobbyist because that person may use a vise one hour a week. All of this should be taken into account when buying a vise.

I have a few more pictures but it all boils down to how much do you want to spend. The shoulder vise screw from Lee Valley is $46.90, while the one from BenchCrafted's is $515. I do not know the cost of the other two that were mentioned. Both install about the same so mounting is a wash. Any way both make great wagon vises. Does 30 seconds worth of speed warrant the cost difference.

Some have said one can get along without a vise by using holdfasts As I have tried to show there are several different ways of clamping so to each his own. As I have said I prefer a tail vise but a wagon vise is all but the next best thing and I wouldn't be with out one or the other.

So in the end the choice is in your hands so please let us know what you decide.

DSC03667.jpg

No vises just holdfast and squeeze clamps

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Tom. Just to clarify - I am an amateur, not a professional. When involved with a project, I can manage 3 days a week in the workshop. I continue to run a full time psych practice (4 days in the week). Available time is just as important, whether one is an amateur or a pro. This translates to the need to work as efficiently as possible. No one wants to muck about with fiddly work-holding. This does not mean that the best system is expensive or elaborate; in fact, simple is better, as is reliability.

The question asked earlier was why a leg vise? I think that they came back into the picture because the likes of Chris Schwarz re-kindled a passion for work benches, and shopmade vises. When I built my current bench I was looking for a larger, very solid handtool-orientated structure, and the Roubo met this, particularly as I liked its simplicity. The Moxon dovetail vise was also emerging as a serious aid, and this freed the bench to focus on ripping (a simple face vise for holding long boards) and planing faces (the wagon vise appealed as it did not extend the length of the bench, itself). Prior to the Moxon coming on board, I had been planning a Veritas double screw vise into the side of the bench top. A leg vise is not only much more compact, but allows for the more ergonomic Moxon.

If I was to replace anything today, I would install the HNT Gordon face vise in place of the leg vise. The fact that I have not done so to date is the high cost if said vise and that the leg vise continues to do a great job. I think the HNT Gordon would do it better (= more reliably, absolutely nil racking, and compact). It is just personal preference at this point. Some will also like this vise, while others will not see the point (it looks similar to a Record, but lacks any quick release). The BC wagon vise has been a jewel all along. That stays.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[JohnM Martin]

Thank you for sharing, Tom. It seems you have quite an array of options, and in one of your other comments you mentioned Lee Valley wagon vise hardware. How has that worked for you? That is the way I'm leaning currently

The first two pictures are of the front and back of my bench. Personally I prefer a face vise and a tail vise. I put a leg vise and a wagon vise on the back side. Probable 80 percent of the time, it is the tail vise with bench dogs that I use. The wagon vise with bench dogs would probably see more use if it wasn't on the back side. The wagon vise will do almost everything the tail vise will do.

DSC03405.JPG DSC03415.JPG

Next is using a face vise with a holdfast. and clamping to a side using holdfasts, as well as using a moxon vise.

DSC03267.JPG DSC03268.JPGDSC03270.JPG

Then there is the tail vise, as well a a leg vise and holdfast DSC03263.JPG on the left hand side of the bench as well as just using hold fasts.

DSC03274.JPG DSC03263.JPG

[JohnM Martin]

Thanks for sharing, Jason. Was the install difficult?

Attachment 512299

I absolutely love my Hovarter wagon vise. It locks and unlocks (tightens and loosens) in under a quarter turn of the handle. Once loose, you just slide the vise/block to where you want it, super quick and easy.

My bench top is 4" thick, and Walnut end block is 5".

[JohnM Martin]

Thanks for sharing, Derek. My bench top is going to be somewhere around 4" thick and I've decided on a solid slab so it will (hopefully) look similar to yours when its all done.

John, my bench has the Benchcrafted ail vise, and it has been superb and reliable all the years. I heartedly recommend it. Note that my bench is 3 1/2" thick.



I have not used or seen the Hovater, and cannot comment.

I did "own" the HNT Gordon tail vise briefly - it was a prize in a competition, and subsequently sold - and have also used one on many occasions. These are beautifully made and run smoothly. They appear to be designed for an easy installation in a thinner bench top (2"), and would be a better choice in this case. The downside is that they are designed for replaceable dogs (of varying heights), rather than pop-up dogs. I would find this inconvenient. Note that the "wheel" is a smaller diameter roller and ts small size makes for a compact set up. But I prefer the larger wheel of the Benchcrafted.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[JohnM Martin]

I hope its ok to post youtube links here. In reading this thread, and especially after your replies, Tom, why not opt for something like what is shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZhblpgm8xo which appears to be a much more economical option than some of the premium options. Are you giving up anything by going with something like this?

I had to leave so I thought I would finish . Most hobby woodworkers consider themselves lucky if they can get 4 hours a week in the shop. Some get more than others. I think Derick is a professional and if he is, he gets a lot of shop time, And what is cheap for a professional because time is money, is highly expensive for the hobbyist because that person may use a vise one hour a week. All of this should be taken into account when buying a vise.

I have a few more pictures but it all boils down to how much do you want to spend. The shoulder vise screw from Lee Valley is $46.90, while the one from BenchCrafted's is $515. I do not know the cost of the other two that were mentioned. Both install about the same so mounting is a wash. Any way both make great wagon vises. Does 30 seconds worth of speed warrant the cost difference.

Some have said one can get along without a vise by using holdfasts As I have tried to show there are several different ways of clamping so to each his own. As I have said I prefer a tail vise but a wagon vise is all but the next best thing and I wouldn't be with out one or the other.

So in the end the choice is in your hands so please let us know what you decide.

DSC03667.jpg

No vises just holdfast and squeeze clamps

[Tom Bussey]

The vise pictures is a little easier to install. The one block doesn't need to be morticed into the end plate like on mine. But I guess it could be turned around. I think it just looks cleaner in morticed in. Be carful because both of the blocks in the video need to be in very good alignment or it is going to be sticky. The screw goes through the jaw so that is why to holes side by side. You may have to cut the screw shorter. It will work fine. I just like the way I did mine and I am planning on doing my next build the same way.

[Tom Bussey]

Derek, From what I have seen of your work I kind of figured that you got in a little more shop time than most hobbyist. I will not get any until the end of march.

My grandfather was a carpenter by trade. He was retired and lived in California but he came to visit each summer. Anyway he managed to get a hold workbench and we had it in the basement. The bench was basically a Nickelson except that it t had a leg vise and maybe the pin on the bottom was missing or something but I couldn't get it to work properly. I was maybe 8 at the time. I asked my dad but he said He would show me latter, which meant it was never going to happen. I prefer a shoulder vise because it is open to the floor. And possibly because I have a distaste for a leg vise that stems from 70 years ago.

[Jason Meinholz]

Thanks for sharing, Jason. Was the install difficult?

Hi John,

Apologies for the late response. I felt it was fairly simple and straight forward to install. Just mill the required dimensions and install.