Trying CS method on my table top

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, I agree with Warren and Tom. Even using a #7 is not going to flatten a panel which has a curve. The length of the #7 is relative, and it will continue to follow the curve.

You need to start with a straight edge and chalk the high spots. Then you take those down. You do not plane anywhere else, just the high spots. Once they are level, then you plane to bring all down to the valleys that remain. Keep in mind that you also need to be maintaining coplanar, hence winding sticks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Gaudio]

I have heard stories, folklore really, of men actually using these things we call planes to surface wooden objects/panels: I had dismissed these stories as they sounded so incredible: who in their right mind would even attempt such a task? Were these shiny planes not really meant to sit on a shelf and be admired by laptop woodworkers? Your post seems heretical: I must now deal with the possibility that all the fanciful stories from days of yore
might actually be true: you can use hand planes to surface wood. Will life ever be the same again?

Seriously: nice work!!!

https://youtu.be/zHvDd8wJVoY?si=waUSFkzJWhLZ7--7

now that it’s all glue up, I’m using the method Schwarz talks about in the hand plane essential book/Woodwright Shop episode (at least as far as I remember it). I did use a scrub on some higher lips between boards I glued up (size differences plus some bow). Now I’m working down with a foreplane (or a #4 with an 8” radius blade in my case)*.
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[Rafael Herrera]

If you're referring to the youtube video of CS flattening an already flat board, it's not a great guide.

First you need to assess how out of flat your board is and the use the proper planes to remove the undesired material. Peter Nicholson's Mechanical Exercises gives you much better guidelines.

https://archive.org/details/PeterNic.../n237/mode/1up

[Tony Wilkins]

If you're referring to the youtube video of CS flattening an already flat board, it's not a great guide.

First you need to assess how out of flat your board is and the use the proper planes to remove the undesired material. Peter Nicholson's Mechanical Exercises gives you much better guidelines.

https://archive.org/details/PeterNic.../n237/mode/1up

I’m using it as a guideline. I first used a scrub across the grain to lower the highest edges. Then I traversed with a #4 with an 8” radius blade. Now I’m working diagonal with the #7. I have to say that so far it’s working well to bring down the high spots. I may end up doing the hunt and straight edge before it’s done. This is more or less an experiment to see how it works. If a board is basically flat I have had good luck with Charlesworth’s method to fine tune. This is really the first time I’ve started with rough sawn.

[Tom M King]

That's a pretty big jump in shaving sizes. In that video, I start with two different no.6's. I think the first one takes shavings about .015 and the second one about half that. The no.4 in the video probably about .0025. My no.7 is set to take less than that no.4. Since that hump you see in the start of that video is fairly small, there was really no need to start with a plane that takes a thicker shaving. All these are cambered blades.

[Rafael Herrera]

I’m using it as a guideline. I first used a scrub across the grain to lower the highest edges. Then I traversed with a #4 with an 8” radius blade. Now I’m working diagonal with the #7. I have to say that so far it’s working well to bring down the high spots. I may end up doing the hunt and straight edge before it’s done. This is more or less an experiment to see how it works. If a board is basically flat I have had good luck with Charlesworth’s method to fine tune. This is really the first time I’ve started with rough sawn.

I admire your willingness to share your progress. I also tried several methods and spent a great deal of effort learning how to flatten a board by hand. I think as you gain experience you'll figure out how heavily your irons need to be cambered to get the lumber cleaned up with the least amount of effort. That's the key, the least amount of effort, not out of laziness but with the aim to efficiency.

The next step is the smoothing of the table top and tear out is going to raise its ugly head. Set up your planes, not just the smoother, with the chip breaker close to the edge to mitigate/minimize tear out in all the final stages of planing.

If you get tear out, set the cb closer and try again.

[Tony Wilkins]

I read an article recently about the chip breaker. I moved them up on both my #4 & #7. I’m actually surprised how easily it;s going. It’s multiple days but I can only stand to do it about 10-15 minutes at a time. There’s about 30-35 minutes in this side of the top so far.

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, Rafael's comment made me aware that I am remiss if I do not state as clearly as possible that I admire you for presenting yourself as openly as you do. For me, this is the very essence of a forum: to create discussion and critique with the purpose of learning. Those who remain silent, or simply post a completed work, are missing out hugely! There is such a diffence between show (only) and show-and-tell. Keep up what you are doing!

Now to the critique. My opinion here ...

When we start out with hand tools, we are so conscious about the tools and using them effectively, that we fail to focus on how to build. Jointing and flattening surfaces are less about the tools and more about the technique. Forget the tools and focus on the work, here the table top. The aim is to create a flat and coplanar surface.

First take note of the high and low areas. Use a straight edge and winding sticks. These areas are treated differently, which means you plane them in a specific sequence. Bring the high spots down. Create a coplanar area. The hand planes you use to do this are not important at this stage. We are simply looking at priorities.

Only once you have planned your attack do you choose your weapons.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Winners]

Tony, I agree with many of the above. I got a Tshirt that says "forgot to use chalk and a straight edge on this one board that one time." You don't want the T shirt on a project of this size.

[steven c newman]

Did anyone ever watch how Ishitani flattened his tabletops? Didn't think so...

[Rob Luter]

Don't think about even shavings. Just take off the high spots. Lay something across it so you can see where the high and low spots are. If you take anything off of the low spots you have to bring the whole thing down to that new lowest level.

Here's a video I made some years back flattening shutter panels. They didn't need to be as flat as a piece of furniture. Going on an 1850 museum house, it was better that they weren't perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SED7B65cppM

Is the video supposed to have sound?

[Derek Cohen]

Did anyone ever watch how Ishitani flattened his tabletops? Didn't think so...

Steven, Ishitani is not a good example - I enjoy watching him, but he is not a hand tool woodworker.

What he does is use a power jointer first, followed by a thickness/planer, and then glues all together, aligning the boards with biscuits. Everything is nice and coplanar at this stage.

Then he makes out like he is a hand tool user by planing the top. There is no special skill needed at this point ... nothing to flatten. I wouldn't say that it is all for show - planing is preferred to sanding - but to mention Ishitani as a model for hand tool use is just wrong.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

So...did you happen to see WHAT he uses as a "straightedge"to check for flat on that large table...give ya a hint...a STRAIGHT 2 x 4 standing on edge..

As for my table top checking..due to the lengths I work with...a 36" Tinner's Ruler, standing on it's steel edge...

Whether one is a "Hand tool only" or a Power tool only woodworker...they still need a reliable way to check for flatness of a panel...OR, a jointed edge being straight.

Sometimes....even just the old MK2 MOD 4 Eyeball works....and ones hand going across a surface....as a client will only have those to check on one's work...Happy client, full pocketbook.

Try joining two( yes 2) live edge planks together at the live edges....Biscuits? Nah..Butterflies...

Not wrong...all depends on one's point of view....sometimes looking down one's nose from the Balcony of their Ivory Tower, the nose blocks the view of other's working habits.

[Tom M King]

Is the video supposed to have sound?

It was supposed to, but it was the first video I ever made, and I forgot to turn the sound on. I was talking the whole time. I ended up selling that video camera. Trying to take a video while working just slowed me up. I get paid to produce work, and it wasn't fair to the people paying me to use the extra time fiddling with camera and lighting setup.

[Tony Wilkins]

So, winding sticks. Mine are about 18” if I recall. Whatever they are, well short of 37” wide. Should I put together a longer set? How long do they need to be to reliably show twist?

Plan b would be to use my two LV aluminum straight edges (50” & 38”?) and put blue tape on the top corners of the longer to use. Would that work?