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Thread: The Dummy's Guide to European Bandsaw Setup

  1. #1
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    The Dummy's Guide to European Bandsaw Setup

    Seems like questions about Minimax bandsaws have been popping up and I wondered if there could be an opportunity to condense knowledge into and level-set some best-practices for setup? First, any contemporary Italian or large Austrian bandsaw ought be very straightforward to set up and get cutting the way you want. You shouldn’t need anything beyond basic hand tools and a carpenter’s square to get a machine cutting the way you want. Sometimes, when Italian bandsaws gets mentioned, the experiences shared will be regarding vintage machines. That is not a problem in of and of itself, except that many of the Italian saws that were sold prior to the year 2000 were one-off units, with no consistent build spec but more importantly, this does not factor in the inevitable wear-and-tear or even abuse that industrial shop machines experienced. Just like trying to restore a classic car, the work you need to get a vintage machine running may not be required on a contemporary, well cared-for machine.


    Everything I am discussing here will pertain to saws sold in the North American market AFTER the year 2000. That date is significant because it was at this point that the dominant manufacturers and dealers began standardizing the design and spec of their machines. More specifically, you can apply anything I say, below, to contemporary Minimax, Centauro, ACM, Agazzani, Meber, or larger Felder bandsaws. First, a caveat:


    -The information in this post is my opinion, alone, and not necessarily shared or endorsed by any of the brands mentioned. Bandsaws are one of the safer machines in the shop but are still very capable of sending you to the hospital. The operator assumes all risk associated with working on a piece of industrial machinery and, as always, if you are not comfortable working on your machine, then HIRE SOMEONE TO DO IT FOR YOU.


    OK, Erik: Why are you qualified to give this advice?:
    I was a sales representative for Minimax USA from 2004-2010, then an independent dealer for SCM Group-North America from 2010-2016.

    Team Minimax USA IWF 2006.jpg


    During that time, I probably sold a thousand Minimax bandsaws but more importantly, have rebuilt/tuned-up/demo’ed hundreds. A common scenario would be delivering an MM16 or MM20 to a trade show for the buyer to pick up and take home. In those cases, it’s the Minimax rep’s responsibility to get that machine uncrated, cleaned, assembled, and cutting in show-worthy condition within a span of a few hours. This repetition caused us to get very good at setting up bandsaws under a time crunch. So, I’d like to share with you the steps I used:


    1.) Machine upright, assembled, stable and leveled, powered up, and dust collection fitted.

    LCD monitor.jpg


    2.) Fit and track blade: My suggestion is always to perform this step with the width blade you most commonly see yourself using and just enough tension to keep the blade on both wheels. European bandsaws all have flat wheels and tires. This is a huge advantage and bypasses many of the issues owners of crowned-tire machines. There is no need to check co-planarity of the wheels…Or at least I have never needed to.

    Tracking is accomplished by camber adjustments to both the upper and lower wheels. You tilt the wheel and blade moves either fore or aft on the tires. During final inspection, the factory typically sets the camber of the lower wheel and means for the user to leave it there. The standard design on Euro saws is a set of four clock bolts on the lower wheel arbor shaft. In my experience, where the factory sets the lower wheel is generally good enough to work. However in some cases, it did require additional adjustment. If anyone wants a walk-through on that, I’d be happy to discuss in a separate post. For now, let’s assume that the factory left the lower wheel where we want it, which was usually the case. Consider the lower wheel a “fixed pivot point” and the upper wheel, your dynamic tracking adjustment. Get your blade tracked on lower wheel, where you want it. For blades greater than 3/4” in width, I track with the teeth hanging off the front of the wheel. This is primarily to avoid tearing up the tire. For blades 1/2” and narrower, feel free to track anywhere across the width of the wheel. The tooth size on blades of that width are not really enough to damage your tire. OK, so blade is now on the lower wheel and tracked where we want. Process is identical for the upper wheel, using quick-adjust knob on the rear of the upper cabinet to bring the blade into range. I spin the upper wheel with my left hand while turning the knob with my right, sighting on the top of the upper wheel. The blade should move fore and aft on the upper wheel within one or two revolutions. Blade is now tracked, under minimum tension.

    MM16handcontrols.jpg


    3.) Working tension: Time to get the blade up to WORKING tension. I say “working” tension because the amount of a tension something like a 1” Lenox Woodmaster CT will need in order to cut 5/4 stock, versus the amount of tension it will need to cut something like a 12” tall veneer will be different. Personally, I like to operate with the minimum amount of tension needed for a given cut. I cannot scientifically back this up but it just seems like less tension = better blade life. I have never found the need for a tension gauge but if that helps your work, then by all means. In any case, it will be virtually impossible to hurt one of these machines by cranking the tension up to 35,000psi or whatever.

    4.) Set the guides: Many of these machines were sold with what is referred to as “Euro-style” guides, which came in a number of variations but generally speaking, consisted of metal-faced discs for both side and thrust (rear). These are often referred to as “bearings” but more accurately, are bushings. The Minimax S45N is unique in that it does actually use sealed bearings. Ceramic guides became popular in the late 2000’s and are even OEM from several vendors, now. I have much less firsthand experience with ceramics than Euro guides but in any case, the process and logic behind the adjustments should be the same.

    Since most owners buy a Euro saw for resawing, let’s assume a 1” blade. Starting the with upper guides, lower the guidepost most of the way down to the table and BACK THE GUIDES COMPLETELY AWAY FROM THE BLADE. We want plenty of free space to work with. Now, bring the side guides back toward the blade, leaving about a matchbook’s thickness of free space on each side. For this next step, I wear a leather glove, though a block of wood will work. With your hand, grab the blade and push forward with reasonable strength. We are trying to duplicate the movement the blade will experience during heavy use. Make a note of how far that blade moves forward and position the guides (still leaving matchbook space) so that the teeth don’t quite touch the leading edge of the guide disc, then lock those guides down. Lateral guides are now set.

    MM16 guide position.jpg

    Now, to the thrust bearing. Same process with the leather glove or block of wood. On an MM16 and Lenox carbide, I found that my thrust bearings were generally set about 1/2” away from the back edge of the blade. Once the upper guides are set, duplicate the process for the lowers, making sure the guide assembly is as far up into the throat of the table as possible.

    Test cut on MM16.jpg

    When resawing on large machines like these, the guides’ only job is to prevent dangerous overtravel of the blade. Beam strength of the machine and blade tension are doing the work, not the guides. However, if using something like a 3/8” or 1/4” blade for, say scrolling work, due to the large span between flywheels on a tall resaw machines like these, that blade really wants to twist and pull. Because of this, we actually DO want to pinch the blade. Coolblocks are a common solution as well as the Carter Stabilizer.

    Mini Max Coolblocks.jpg

    5.) Square the table to the blade: Self-explanatory, any decent square will work. There is usually a stop-bolt and locking nut located under the inboard edge of the table.

    Leveling MM16 table.jpg

    6.) Square the fence to the cast iron table: MM-series bandsaws use a simpler fence design than the more common ACMs. On MM’s, use shim stock, if needed, to square the fence. With ACM’s and others that use a fence which is “captive” to the guide bar, you may need to make the adjustment to the guide bar before tweaking the fence.

    7). Make the fence parallel to the blade: I simply loosen the fence, then match it to the mitre slot with my thumbs before locking down. I believe the human fingertip can feel differences down to the thousandth of an inch and this has always worked adequately for me.

    8.) Start making sawdust!: There are lots of additional adjustments and tweaking you can do but these steps were my standard MO for getting a bandsaw ready for a trade show, customer, demo, etc.

    Additional thoughts and observations:

    -The vast majority of cut-quality complaints from new owners were caused by lack of adequate blade tension. Understandable, since most small bandsaws will start to flex or otherwise misbehave as you try to get that 1” blade cutting right but when it comes to Euro saws, crank away! Trust me: You’ll snap the blade long before the machine starts to complain.

    -The #2 reason for resaw quality complaints was setting the guides too close to the blade. This results in noisy, irregular cuts as well as destroying the thrust bearing. Let the blade do the work, not the guides.

    -Using the machine’s tension gauge as a benchmark is not usually helpful. All these machines have integrated tension gauges, which call out blade widths. I have no idea what blades the factory used to arrive at these suggestions but at least on Centauros, they were VERY conservative. That being said, the gauges might not be accurate but they are consistent, which is useful. My suggestion to owners was to fit and tension the blade you use the most, then put a sharpie mark where the gauge pointer is. At least this way, you have a quick reference point to come back to on your most frequently-used blade.

    -Formal manuals and documentation are “spartan”, to say the least. I use to joke with new MM16 owners that you were getting the best machine, along with the worst manual! Also, many of these manuals were translated from Italian and suffer from losing things in translation. For example, one manual for an Italian sliding panel saw specifies “petrol” as a guideway lubricant. The Italians meant “diesel fuel” but “petrol” is gasoline to most of us. Point being, the manufacturers consider bandsaws to be the most basic of machines and it’s, “Here’s the schematic. What else would you need?”, so any additional content is subjective.

    -Blades are consumable. Buy a range and either discard or sharpen as needed. It can be the best bandsaw in the world but if you’ve gone through thousands of board-feet on that one blade, then it’s not a machine issue when you start getting a rough cut. The beauty of Euro saws is that they will bring out the best in any type of blade you put on them, so don’t be afraid to experiment. You learn by breaking blades!

    I hope this is useful and if you happen to own a European bandsaw (especially a Centauro!), then you have a really great tool in your shop.

    Erik

    11816288_1123611461049295_1775213835724445292_o.jpg
    Last edited by Erik Loza; 01-03-2024 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Fixed some typos
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  2. #2
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    Thanks Eric! Interesting information.
    Some Blue Tools
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post

    I hope this is useful and if you happen to own a European bandsaw (especially a Centauro!), then you have a really great tool in your shop.

    Erik

    11816288_1123611461049295_1775213835724445292_o.jpg
    I agree, as it's certainly worth getting something worth working on, and if you intend to keep the saw in good nick, then you could align everything properly thereafter.
    Should you not need to sort it out properly immediately, that is.
    Without motor adjustment (as with all manufacturers making any sheet metal saw, the same deal with all of 'em)
    So a bit of a lottery in that regards, but worse case scenario is you still have an excellent machine to work on, compared to finding other surprises one might find
    on something lesser, should they investigate.

    A testament to the components in Italian bandsaws, it's not just the much nicer guides one is getting when choosing one.

    All the best
    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 01-03-2024 at 1:03 PM.

  4. #4
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    Let me think about all the times I've needed to "align the motor" on a Centauro. Ummm..... Wait: NEVER!

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Let me think about all the times I've needed to "align the motor" on a Centauro. Ummm..... Wait: NEVER!

    Erik
    Had my MM20 for +/-15 years. here is a list of things I never had to do;

    Align the motor

    Replace drive belts

    Replace motor (or wheel) bearings

    Replace tires

    "tram" the upper and lower wheels

    dress the edges of the tires

    Cut a hole in the saw

    shade-tree engineer a motor mount

    Weld any part of it


    In fairness, I did have to true the tires to be concentric with the wheels, but when I did it I made sure that they were truly flat as well. I also replaced the tension spring as I wasn't completely satisfied with how much tension I could put on a 1" Lenox Trimaster with the stock spring. The saw was used exclusively with that blade at 25-27k psi cutting miles of 12-15" wide veneer to 1/16" thick with .005 total deviation. The saw is now in the care of a fellow creeker and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't done anything on the above list either.

  6. #6
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    John, agree 100%. One observation I made was that it sometimes took a while for new owners to "trust" their saw. By that, I mean that many folks had invested in so much time in fussing with their previous 12" and 14" saws that it took them a while to realize that they no longer need to do any of that in order to get great results with the new machine. During the mid 2000's, when bowl turning was all the craze, it was kind of known among the trade show vendors to "take it to the Minimax booth and they'll cut it up for you". This was great publicity and the fun part was that you could be cutting up a huge burl one moment, then doing a veneer demo the next. And the saws never skipped a beat. I'm not even a woodworker and if someone offered me an MM16 for a bargain, I might just get it because that machine is so much fun to use. All Italian saws are fine but MM's are something special and we will probably never see a saw of that spec, again.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  7. #7
    The older CO from the 80's to mid 90's is a better design though, in regards to longevity.
    1993CO.jpg
    Though not forgetting some Meber's
    Screenshot-2022-12-10 Meber Bandsaw (SOLD) - YouTube.jpg
    Multico's
    multico b600 motor .jpg

    , and even some Sagitario's also featuring
    motor adjustability.
    Sagitario 800 .jpg
    You get to see the lemons made from all round the world on ebay, which pose the best questions.

    Which one of them will have a revision first I wonder?
    Last edited by Tom Trees; 01-03-2024 at 2:01 PM.

  8. #8
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    Tom, it’s clear that you prefer vintage machines. That’s great. Like I stated in the opening paragraph of the original post, this thread is about CONTEMPORARY European bandsaws, not vintage machines. If you’d like to discuss modern bandsaws, then please do, but I would ask you to refrain from adding any further “the old ways are better”-type opinions in this thread. All that does is get posts deleted, hands slapped, etc. None of which is in the spirit of Sawmill Creek. Thank you,

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  9. #9
    Fingers crossed I am discussing modern Italian bandsaws Erik!

    Happy new year to you

    Tom

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    I’ve had to replace things in my saw. The lower wheel bearings died, I replaced them with SKF Explorer bearings which are higher precision than the OEM. I reset the wheels to be parallel to avoid having an axial load. The new bearings and I assume the old, are rated for axial load but clearly they did not survive it for years under the tension required for a 1” carbide tooth blade.

    The squeal at startup was an annoying feature of the machine which SCM told me was typical. I tightened the belt using a prybar to raise the motor and the noise went away.

    The miter slot is a good place to align the fence, so long as the table is well aligned to the machine. There is a fair amount of play in the assembly so if you loosen it for any reason, be aware of that.

    Fencr alignment is critical, especially if you use a light duty feeder. Light duty feeders overpower the fence pin in my experience so I bored the fence for a heavy pin and very heavy shoulder bolt.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #11
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    I agree Erik, European saw are voodoo free,(no BS adjustments needed) they just work.
    Last edited by Stephen Bandirola; 01-04-2024 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post

    In fairness, I did have to true the tires to be concentric with the wheels, but when I did it I made sure that they were truly flat as well. I also replaced the tension spring as I wasn't completely satisfied with how much tension I could put on a 1" Lenox Trimaster with the stock spring. The saw was used exclusively with that blade at 25-27k psi cutting miles of 12-15" wide veneer to 1/16" thick with .005 total deviation. The saw is now in the care of a fellow creeker and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't done anything on the above list either.
    How did you true the tires?
    Yes, I have 3 phase!

  13. #13
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    Erik,
    I have a 2002/3 ish Laguna 18" Italian saw here in Katy. Only have about 10" resaw capacity under the guides. Would this vintage have been from the Centauro lineup? I mainly run a 1" Resaw King blade which was sharpened shortly after I got the saw a couple of years ago. All seems to be pretty good. Clean cuts on the flat or resaw. Having only my own limited experience, I'm not sure if I should expect to see no saw marks at all when resawing or not when properly set up. Right now, a light pass over the jointer (Hammer A3-31 silent head) cleans it all up.

    Thoughts?

    Steve

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Catts View Post
    Erik,
    I have a 2002/3 ish Laguna 18" Italian saw here in Katy. Only have about 10" resaw capacity under the guides. Would this vintage have been from the Centauro lineup? I mainly run a 1" Resaw King blade which was sharpened shortly after I got the saw a couple of years ago. All seems to be pretty good. Clean cuts on the flat or resaw. Having only my own limited experience, I'm not sure if I should expect to see no saw marks at all when resawing or not when properly set up. Right now, a light pass over the jointer (Hammer A3-31 silent head) cleans it all up.

    Thoughts?

    Steve
    Steve, if it’s Italian, then it would be an ACM. ACM is and always has been an OEM’er of Italian saws to various US dealers. Hope this answers your question.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    In fairness, I did have to true the tires to be concentric with the wheels, but when I did it I made sure that they were truly flat as well. I also replaced the tension spring as I wasn't completely satisfied with how much tension I could put on a 1" Lenox Trimaster with the stock spring. The saw was used exclusively with that blade at 25-27k psi cutting miles of 12-15" wide veneer to 1/16" thick with .005 total deviation. The saw is now in the care of a fellow creeker and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't done anything on the above list either.
    It's continuing to slice beautiful veneer without any fiddling, as well as whack up the occasional tree trunk for turning projects. Just resawed all the wood for hundreds of organ pipes. What a pleasure to use!

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