Setting high speed knives on any jointer

[Mark Hennebury]

Yes you can just wrap a piece of paper to prevent the hone contacting the metal of the outfeed table.

Mark, that's an excellent method for safely jointing the knives in place. It would be a good idea to tape the stone where it rides on the infeed table.

[Tom Bussey]

You can use a stick of wood it you want to but, they used horses to plow fields with, well into the 30"S and 40"s or just after WW11. And after reading how many post there are about how to sharpen a plane blade. It says they probably screwed up the edge. Me included. I use a Veritas blade holder to get mine sharp. Using a stone like that usually screws up the edge, but if you think it helps go for it. I wouldn't touch it, but it is what working in my trade has tough me. And 1/32 depth of cut is only an opinion. but it is a much better option to take 1/32 than 1/16th. Every one knows that if a board is cupped and twisted when it goes into a planner it is cupped and twisted coming out. The same applies to a jointer. Any down ward pressure on a bowed board will result in the board being bowed after the pass. And the deeper the cut the more pressure it takes to complete the pass. From experience carbide inserted cutters produce more resistance in the cut and on a milling machine it takes more Horse power. There is nothing wrong with a 32nd or even 3/54ths until you get close If you have a gage like mine you can reset the height anytime you like.

If you take off 4 passes of 1/64 you have removed 1/16. if you take off 2passes of 1/32 you have removed 1/16. If your board is skip planed at 7/8's and you take off 1/8th like some do because it is the only way they have to get around a poorly adjusted jointer you have no material left the plane off and still get a finished board at 3/4 or .750

I have shown you the best and most reliable way of setting jointer knives that I know of. I have said that it is called a one way gauge and one used to be able to get it from Wood Craft. One can buy the indicator at Menards, Harbor Freight. or it can be ordered from MSC or Home Depot. I do know that Mitutoyo makes the flat point. I would stay away from MSC for the indicator. So many to choose from and the prices down right spooky I have said that it can be made out of wood and that is why I told where to get the indicator. And at none of the places should it be over $30 and that would include tax. I would put a little weight on it if wood is used.

I have one that I made out of steel it works fine but will need to be blocked up if doing a planner. I will loan it out for free but shipping both ways are on you. PM if you interested.

[Andrew Hughes]

I use a dial indicator holder similar to a one way but longer. For my jointer its a better choice because the table lips on my jointer are very wide and have a sight half thou taper they are also more then 60 years old . I bought from a member on the creek that makes accessories for sidling tablesaws.
Im a firm believer in setting knives as close to as possible. My jointer is direct drive and the head turn 3400 rpm I can feel a high knife when it cuts.
I also preach good high speed steel T1 or American National knives M2. The stuff sold on Amazon cheap with unknown material it’s best to stay away from. Unless you use your jointer once or twice a year.

[Tom M King]

I use a strip of Boxwood and set the knives by feel. A few minutes for a set of three including cleaning out the slots in the head. Picture of surface finish produced after last freshly sharpened set with light reflecting off the board from a window. Knife is pushed down in place while rocking the head back and forth with the wrench until the strip of wood is all the way down on the outfeed table and you feel the knife rubbing on a fresh spot on the Boxwood. Would take longer to explain than showing while telling. Will take movie when BIL comes back in a few weeks. I used to use a dial indicator too, but takes too long. Tools used shown in the picture. Little hook to pull knife up if it gets too low, but I think it's been a long time since I needed to use it. I sharpen the blades often for some jobs and finish of two sides of a lot of projects come right off the jointer.

I vary the cut depth all the time depending on the job. Picture of 12' long bowed and twisted treated 4x4 that 1-1/2" bow needed to be taken out of the 12' length. You could look at these 4x4's and see three sides, but they had been drying in a shed since 2017 and I needed them for some handrails. I think I used 1/8" cut for those but don't remember exactly since it's been over a year. I think I rarely take more than an eighth. No standard, just what is needed for the job.

edited to add: That may not have been one of the 12' ones, but they were all like that. Picture of handrails on rental house added. They're still dead straight a couple of years later. All the parts for them came out of such old, dry treated 4x4's.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Tom,

I don't get your comments about plowing the field's, or using a stone like that usually screws up the edge?

If you like your method better that's great, if you want to share it, that's appreciated, you explained it well. But there are other methods.

I am seventy next month and have been woodworking and metalworking all of my life also.
I never had the luxury of lots of money, so I could never afford all of the fancy gadgets, tools and machines. I bought beat-up old big industrial machines and rebuilt them and tuned them up. I didn't get any formal training, so i learned by experimentation, observation, and analysis. I bought a couple of tool and cutter grinders and experimented, I learned a lot about tool geometry, I made lots of tools and jigs, and I learned a lot about marking and measuring and precision, and a lot about the relationships between parts. What I learned most is that gadgets wont help you understand the relationships, but when you understand the relationships you don't need all of the gadgets.

I don't have a problem with your method, didn't put it down in any way, just offered an alternative.

So what I offered was a way to set your knives accurately without having to spend any money, that's the way that I always set mine. And it is as accurate as using a dial indicator.

Not trying to steal your thunder, just trying to add to the collective knowledge.

I can set up most any machine as accurately with a stick of wood and as Tom King said, "feel", as any else can with a $1000 worth of metrology tools. I have nothing against tools and machines, got lots myself. Got loads of calipers, dial and digital indicators, huge granite surface plates and camel-backs etc..

I know a thing or two about sharpening knives also, so I wouldn't tell people how to screw up their blades

That's Ziersch & Bailtrusch surface grinder, a fully automatic Marunaka supersurfacer knife grinder, a manual supersurfacer grinder, and a Hembrug tool & cutter grinder, a couple of the dozens of supersurfacers that i rebuilt, and some shiny wood sliced with a sharp blade, done on the manual grinder.

SAM_3964.jpgSAM_0965.jpgAttachment 514424Marunaka Grinder 3 (002).JPGHembrug 2a.jpgWFX Rebuild (24).jpgshavings4.jpgsupers25.jpgsupers5.jpg

You can use a stick of wood it you want to but, they used horses to plow fields with, well into the 30"S and 40"s or just after WW11. And after reading how many post there are about how to sharpen a plane blade. It says they probably screwed up the edge. Me included. I use a Veritas blade holder to get mine sharp. Using a stone like that usually screws up the edge, but if you think it helps go for it. I wouldn't touch it, but it is what working in my trade has tough me.

[Kevin Jenness]

There are more ways to the woods than one. I used to use a dial indicator to set jointer knives but gravitated to the stick method. It works just as well and doesn't cost anything. I will try Mark's jointing method and I am sure that it won't screw up the knives, which are set very close to begin with. I used to run a planer that jointed the knives when the head was running and having all the knives cutting equally, even with a tiny land with no clearance, made a big difference.

Light cuts at a slow feed speeds can give a clean cut on squirrely woods but they are harder on the knives due to heat. If I had been seen routinely taking 1/64" passes in employment while milling stacks of lumber I would have received at least a wtf.

[Joe Calhoon]

The stick method is very accurate. I had a dial indicator to get the knives close in the head on the old J/P but the stick on the outfeed tells the truth. When I was running with conventional heads and HSS it was once a month knife change and sharpening on a Makita wet grinder. You get good at it. I still set the outfeed table with a stick with tersa heads. You get 2 - 3 mm of movement and you are good.
1/32” passes?

[Kevin Jenness]

Like Joe I find my jointer works best with the knives a scosh above the outfeed table. In theory they should be dead even, in practice not so much. I always check with a pair of 1x4s as long as the outfeed table and adjust the table height until I get a perfect mating joint with no gaps or snipe. I may adjust the outfeed down .0005" as the knives dull before swapping them out.

[Warren Lake]

started on wood then went to a dial at some point. I can set my knives to .050 above the head every time and the cutting circle remains the same other than wear.

Tom K looked at your photo, what is stopping the head so the knife is at the top of its arc every knife? otherwise your knives wont be the same. The dial shows you top dead center and other times ive also clamped a precision square and checked measure so the head is in the same place for every knife. In that case the base of the dial indicator rode on the straight edge.

The dial I have is very fine resolution. I set to .0005 which is more than enough I get but just done it that way forever. Its easy to see .00025 on the dial as the needle is so fine and every thou is two lines. Ive never checked the wood with a dial after. I did see a you tube once where the guy said he checked and it wasnt as accurate. At some point ill compare. I like numbers, the digital read out in the handle of the Sata spray gun. The speedometer in my car comes in handy as well.

Always honed when back from the sharpener. Hard arkansa with oil they end up wicked sharp. Dangerous sharp.

[Tom M King]

Swing the head back and forth with the wrench in place. Feel for TDC. Less than 30 seconds per knife. Knives all exact. Check finish on test piece. Can't get better than that. I sharpen mine on water stones that are good for HSS.

[Warren Lake]

Ill wait for the movie. Used water stones as well for a bit and stick on sandpaper for other stuff. Looking back to last change on one machine I see I tried those magnets for the first time and could not get them to make accurate results. A set came with some knives I bought at an auction.

Usually when you set knives you are on one side and if you get that right the other side is what it is, if you go set the other side and set it it will change the first one you have done because you changed the angle of the knife. Im on a 14" head which is a bit harder and im checking for accurate both sides and the middle. ill play around and compare with the wood and dial next time and maybe try those magnet things again and see if I get better results. would have thought they would give perfect results.

[Tom Bussey]

Andrew.
I like the looks of your gage and I think it works well and would work for setting table saw blade height as well as raising or lowering router bits. You are also correct about blade material. I believe there are 27 different grades of T grade high speed steel so there is a vast differences even in the high speed steel category. And then there is M2 and M4 high speed steel. And you will have to trust me on this one. You are not going to like anything about M4 except longevity of a cutting edge. Any way M2 is the best choice for knives as far as I am concerned. I like your gage and I 100 % agree with you on setting knives as close as possible. I also believe you when you can feel a high knife

If your cutter head is direct drive then does your jointer have babbet bearings?

[Andrew Hughes]

Andrew.
If your cutter head is direct drive then does your jointer have babbet bearings?

My jointer has oil bath direct drive 60 hz. Its actually closer to 3400 rpm. Here’s what sets it apart. I have a 5 inch cutting circle with a 36 degree hook angle. I direct my saw service to sharpen the knives at 42 degrees that leaves me 12 clearance. My machine has threaded holes on the table for knife grinder and the manual does recommend jointing for difficult woods. I don’t have the parts.
Your post didn’t fall on deaf ears I’ve posted many times about jointer knives. Setting them picking good hss and last but not least a joiner isn’t meant to clean dirty wood. Then there the myth about insert head being a upgrade
I once was gifted a set of knives from a friend that works at mill shop that were pretty special. They had a black coating on the face. I like them but they were too thick at 3/32 my jointer calls for 1/8. So I tossed them

[Dave Zellers]

Tremendous info Tom- Thanks for taking the time. I do have a Oneway gauge and I will utilize it next time I swap out the knives in my 8" jointer. I have used the stick method and I also have a magnet jig that has been successful for me but I do put a small anvil on it over the outfeed table to keep it from moving. I lost a couple of the springs that push the knife up in the head so the magnet does that job now. Fine tuning with the Oneway should be very helpful.

Your post is going into my keeper file.

[Brian Deakin]

I raise the height of the out feed bed so it is slightly higher than the planer knifes when at top or dead centre

I take a sheet of glass and spray one side with furniture polish to create an opaque film


I then place the glass film side down on the out feed table


I then slowly lower the out feed table and rotate the cutter head by hand


When the edge of the knives scrape the film of the glass the knife edges are level with the out feed table


You can also observe if the blades are co planer by how the film is removed