We hear so many things on these threads. It is often repeated that kickbacks cause most injuries. I have searched online and can not find data to support this. If someone has data or source for kickback injuries, I would be very interested.
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We hear so many things on these threads. It is often repeated that kickbacks cause most injuries. I have searched online and can not find data to support this. If someone has data or source for kickback injuries, I would be very interested.
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Larry, I've read that many places list the cause of the injury as kickback but the actual injury itself is a laceration of some type. This may be where some of the confusion stars.Originally Posted by Larry Frank
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Bosch is out because of SawStops litigation. The other two, which are hard to pronounce and harder to write, are not logical for anything but large commercial shops because of their size and enormous cost.
Member
This isn't completely accurate. It has since been reported that Bosch was offered a deal to license the technology and reintroduce their saw in the US. They chose not to do so. The likely explanation is because they decided they couldn't price the saw competetively when licensing the technology.
And phrasing it as "because of litigation" is a fairly inflammatory way of saying "because they were protecting their IP". If protecting IP isn't important anymore, then let's spin up all the offshore shops to steal a whole bunch of other things and bring them back at a bargain.
Last edited by Patrick Varley; 02-18-2024 at 11:11 PM.
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There are a few others.
https://youtube.com/shorts/oAlDjWvEf...77H_q4vmrtq8z4
Last edited by Mark Hennebury; 02-18-2024 at 11:49 PM.
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Bandsaw blade stop.
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another bandsaw
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Eaward,
My wife gave me a SS ICS for Christmas about ten years ago because I wanted one. Ive had three table saws in my life.
a black and decker direct drive. A really bad saw. I made a fence for it, turning it into just a bad saw. It never had any guard, riving knife. I was probably 25.
a powermatic 63 contractors saw. It came with a nice Vega fence and I added a uniguard. I was around 35
Sawstop ICS. Muuuch better. At almost 60, I knew this was very likely the last saw I would ever own so I got the industrial.
Member
Well I wasn’t there like you were so I have to go on second hand information. I bow to first hand knowledge.
Again, people continue to miss the issue. It’s not that SawStop wants to withhold their patented device that is their only real way to compete with other table saw manufacturers.
Last edited by Lee Schierer; 02-19-2024 at 10:54 AM. Reason: removed political content.
Member
65 YO here, and have been working on and around machinery since at least my age reached two digits. A few thoughts...
Someone said far above that most injuries involve carelessness or violating safety protocols. Yeah, I suppose that 100% of injuries not attributable to a machinery defect or failure are in that category, but IMO that's not a helpful observation. There are cases of doing stupid, sorry, high-risk things on purpose (like the story two posts above), but there are also accidents. Even the smartest, most experienced person makes mistakes, and some of these need no more than a fraction of a second of inattention. Anything that's motor-driven can cause a serious injury. It doesn't even need to have a cutting device mounted. I have a few fairly serious finger injuries from working on vehicles.
I don't own a SawStop, though I probably should. I'd actually be interested in seeing a similar idea for machines like table-mounted routers and jointers, but I have no idea how you'd engineer that. Anyway, it seems to me that the economics of a SawStop purchase are a no-brainer. Ignore the many practical life issues that can result from a table saw accident and focus just on the economics. Even with decent insurance, many people could probably justify purchase of a SawStop based on nothing more than the cost of hospital, doctor and physical therapist bills that result from a table saw injury. So why don't we all own SawStop saws? Because we think we're smart enough and experienced enough that we won't have accidents with our machines. I've had one flesh vs. blade accident with a table saw (thankfully not as serious as it should have been) and one with a table-mounted router, which took part of a finger joint clean off, which has had consequences that will never go away.
The guy who does 731 Woodworking on YouTube did a second video in which he reads extensively from materials posted on the CPSC website in the area for comments on the proposed rule making. Two things really stood out. First, one of the patents that's probably necessary to use the SawStop tech doesn't expire until 2030-something, so waiting a few years or providing for an extended compliance date wouldn't solve that problem, at least not any time soon. Second, based on statements made by SawStop representatives on the CPSC website, SawStop appears to have changed its mind about licensing, at least voluntarily. Put those two together and it seems that it should be very difficult for the CPSC to adopt rules requiring SawStop tech in other manufacturers' saws - and we can be fairly certain that the patents were written up in such a way that it has been essentially impossible to design around those patents.
At the end of the day, all we can do is wait and see what the CPSC will do. I should mention that it has become fairly common to litigate the adoption of rules by federal commissions and agencies, and a reasonable number of these are successful in partially or entirely overturning rules adopted by federal commissions and agencies, so even if the CPSC proceeds to adoption of final rules, it's not clear that they will ever become effecctive.
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As I understand it, yes, SS did change their stance on licensing.
IMO, They changed their position so they could state for the record, that they offered the technology and no one wanted it. This way they can claim that they're not a monopoly at all, the others are just singling them out.
They've not changed their tune in 20 years. Everyone else is ganging up on them and theirs is the best technology. Small problem is that there is evidence to suggest otherwise.
Contributor
The meat industry has been using bandsaws with a blade stop technology for quite a while. To my knowledge, the saws are expensive and require that you wear a certain color of glove. That works fine for the meat industry because they always use gloves when cutting meat, and the cost of an accident is very high.
It allows the cutters to work faster, also, improving productivity.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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I agree Mike, I have a four function saw fence also and love it .Regards, Rod
Contributor
Rod Sheridan: I ran a 3HP Uni-saw with a Uni-fence from 1987-2016. Wish that when I sold the saw, I retained the Uni-fence and the Uni-T-fence. The hi-lo fence position and the ease of adjusting the fence was excellent. I wish such a fence was available for my Sawstop ICS.
https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_unifence.html
If SawStop would clone the Uni-fence, I think it would be a good seller.
Moderator
You will find that Euro machines are typically high/low. And it's not something I'd be willing to give up myself. Being back with a typical Tee-Square fence on the PCS I used temporarily while my shop was going up made me truly miss the high/low configuration, especially since I tend to run it in the low position a lot of the time.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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