All table saws to be SawStops?

[Edward Weber]

https://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/it-table-saw-facts.asp

Unintended Consequences Of The SawStop Technology

• Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.
• Logic dictates that this increase in accident rate on SawStop saws is due primarily to a user’s decision to use the blade guard less frequently or not at all due to a “sense of security” in having the SawStop flesh-sensing technology on the saw.
• The reduced rate of using the blade guarding system will result in increased rate of facial or eye injuries caused by high velocity particles ejected by the saw blade or injuries caused by workpiece kickback.
• The increased cost of even the least expensive table saws, as discussed in this document, may result in power tool users resorting to unsafe methods (for example: using portable hand held circular saw in inverted position) to accomplish cuts normally performed on a table saw.
• The rising population in the 1980's of the affordable and safe benchtop saw resulted in a decrease in accidents from circular saws being used improperly. If benchtop saws become drastically more expensive or manufacturers withdraw from the market, there is likely to be a return to improper use of circular saws and unintended declines in safety.

[Bill Howatt]

I don't totally buy the experience argument, I've read too many posts that start with something like, "I've been doing this for over XX years without incident but today I .....".
Human brains have a habit of losing focus.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

https://www.powertoolinstitute.com/p...-saw-facts.asp

Unintended Consequences Of The SawStop Technology

• Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.

Nearly 100% of SawStop blade contact incidents get reported; they need a new cartridge. Not so with a minor injury from a regular table saw.

[Justin Rapp]

If PM made a SS equivalent, I'd switch just for the color

Funny - the reason I have not bought a single PM tools is because of the color. <joke>

[Justin Rapp]

https://www.powertoolinstitute.com/p...-saw-facts.asp

Unintended Consequences Of The SawStop Technology

• Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.
• Logic dictates that this increase in accident rate on SawStop saws is due primarily to a user’s decision to use the blade guard less frequently or not at all due to a “sense of security” in having the SawStop flesh-sensing technology on the saw.
• The reduced rate of using the blade guarding system will result in increased rate of facial or eye injuries caused by high velocity particles ejected by the saw blade or injuries caused by workpiece kickback.
• The increased cost of even the least expensive table saws, as discussed in this document, may result in power tool users resorting to unsafe methods (for example: using portable hand held circular saw in inverted position) to accomplish cuts normally performed on a table saw.
• The rising population in the 1980's of the affordable and safe benchtop saw resulted in a decrease in accidents from circular saws being used improperly. If benchtop saws become drastically more expensive or manufacturers withdraw from the market, there is likely to be a return to improper use of circular saws and unintended declines in safety.

At the woodworking show, SawStop's backdrop still shows the 'a table saw incident occurs every 9 minutes'. I asked the rep about this, since it's been the same sign for maybe 15 years. He said that Sawstop has sold about 250,000 machines so far and it's barely put a dent in the number of machines out there. Also considering if the incident was to still occur using a Sawstop, the number of incidents won't change, the the severity of the incident. A little cut vs a devastating injury. The actual number of incidents won't change.

[Cameron Wood]

I 100% bought my SS because it had the safety feature. I also buy my vehicles based on their safety ratings not just based on what I like, what color it is or just reliability.

My only issue was the generalizing comment, not whether or not you'd make the same decision as me. Personally I don't care if someone buys that brand or believes what it offers is of any value.

Black cars have the highest accident rate.

[Rick Potter]

I wonder how many of those blade contacts were from hitting the miter gage or a nail? They would be "blade contacts" reported to SS, but no injuries involved.

[Ronald Blue]

I wonder how many of those blade contacts were from hitting the miter gage or a nail? They would be "blade contacts" reported to SS, but no injuries involved.

I'm in a SawStop FB group and probably 8 out of 10 posted activations are miter gage, tape measure, or sometimes an unknown. How SawStop uses that data is unknown but we can guess they probably claim them all as saves even if it saved your miter gage or tape measure.
Take this articale for what it's worth but apparently at least Grizzly made a couple attempts to license the technology over the years and SawStop wasn't interested.

Companies Allege SawStop Refused to License Safety Tech (toolguyd.com)

[Edward Weber]

I'm in a SawStop FB group and probably 8 out of 10 posted activations are miter gage, tape measure, or sometimes an unknown. How SawStop uses that data is unknown but we can guess they probably claim them all as saves even if it saved your miter gage or tape measure.
Take this articale for what it's worth but apparently at least Grizzly made a couple attempts to license the technology over the years and SawStop wasn't interested.

Companies Allege SawStop Refused to License Safety Tech (toolguyd.com)

Thanks for that link, very informative reading.
This paragraph from SBD is what I've been saying all along


If SawStop and TTS are seeking to improve safety by making AIMT broadly available to consumers, they will make a FRAND commitment. If they continue to refuse to make a FRAND commitment, however, the truth about their motives will be clear—SawStop and its parent, TTS, are seeking to use a CPSC mandate to extract royalties that are not fair, not reasonable, and not nondiscriminatory. The Commission should not allow SawStop and TTS to hijack its authority in order to line SawStop’s and TTS’s own pockets at the expense of consumers and competition. The Commission should instead require SawStop and TTS to make a FRAND commitment before mandating AIMT.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for that link, very informative reading.
This paragraph from SBD is what I've been saying all along


If SawStop and TTS are seeking to improve safety by making AIMT broadly available to consumers, they will make a FRAND commitment. If they continue to refuse to make a FRAND commitment, however, the truth about their motives will be clear—SawStop and its parent, TTS, are seeking to use a CPSC mandate to extract royalties that are not fair, not reasonable, and not nondiscriminatory. The Commission should not allow SawStop and TTS to hijack its authority in order to line SawStop’s and TTS’s own pockets at the expense of consumers and competition. The Commission should instead require SawStop and TTS to make a FRAND commitment before mandating AIMT.

I don't have the dates, but I think all of the SawStop patents are just about expired. And, by law, you cannot do a patent licensing deal that extends past the expiration date of the patent.

So, let's say that a patent has one year to run, and a company wants to license it from the owner. The owner might say, "I'll license you with the provision that you continue to pay me a reduced fee after the patent expires." Can't do it by law.

Mike

[mike stenson]

I don't have the dates, but I think all of the SawStop patents are just about expired. And, by law, you cannot do a patent licensing deal that extends past the expiration date of the patent.

So, let's say that a patent has one year to run, and a company wants to license it from the owner. The owner might say, "I'll license you with the provision that you continue to pay me a reduced fee after the patent expires." Can't do it by law.

Mike

Dates are earlier in this thread.

[Ronald Blue]

I don't have the dates, but I think all of the SawStop patents are just about expired. And, by law, you cannot do a patent licensing deal that extends past the expiration date of the patent.

So, let's say that a patent has one year to run, and a company wants to license it from the owner. The owner might say, "I'll license you with the provision that you continue to pay me a reduced fee after the patent expires." Can't do it by law.

Mike

In the comment section of the article I linked someone claims that there are additional patents protecting the Sawstop technology past 2030. I personally am highly skeptical of this. So Stephen Gass is a far better patent attorney than any other there has ever been? There are plenty of good ideas we've seen patented that as soon as the patent expired the competition had their version on the market. They wouldn't have also extended by supplemental companion patents if that was all it took? I think this year is when the main patent is supposed to expire. I guess time will tell. I like my Sawstop PCS and have no intention of ever needing the safety feature. Bbut I still think it's creator is despicable. Trying to strong arm the industry is just sleazy.

[Edward Weber]

Nothing has changed expect the date on the calendar.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ith-CPSC&pp=15

[jack duren]

It’s called boredom..

repeat, repeat and repeat and repeat it some more.

[Edward Weber]

It’s called boredom..

repeat, repeat and repeat and repeat it some more.

You seem to be keeping up with this thread, does this mean you're bored?