All table saws to be SawStops?

[Ronald Blue]

Interesting question. I follow a Sawstop owner's group on FB, and I swear it seems like every time someone runs their finger into the blade they post a pic saying "Look, see how it saved me!!!". Meanwhile, I'm thinking "WTF were you doing with your fingers that close to the blade in the first place?!?".

The safety feature is great, but it seems like too many use it as a substitute for basic safety / common sense.

I think I'm in the same group. I scratch my head so often from the "activation" posts. Whether it's flesh or the miter gauge in nearly every post I'm thinking some people shouldn't operate machinery. So I'm going to cut a 30 degree miter or whatever. What's it take? 5 seconds to make a dry run with blade off to verify you won't make contact with the gauge? I own a Sawstop PCS. It was a fantastic upgrade from the old Craftsman I used to have. I still pay close attention to where my hands are in relationship to the spinning blade. I don't want to be the one where the technology failed. I despise how Gass tried to strongarm the technology on everyone.

[Keith Christopher]

The way some of the insurance talk was on here it reminded me of the movie i-robot where the robots deemed it to unsafe to venture out of ones house so they disallowed it forcibly keeping people locked indoors.

Insurance companies are not your friend, in fact you are betting against yourself. You're paying for something that will pay in case something goes wrong, and you're trying hard for something to not go wrong. LOL.

While a necessary evil in modern day as we often are not in control of our safety (drunk driver, distracted driver) so I understand it to help prevent the burden of large expenses surrounding injury or loss. And if you have it, they will raise your rates so you end up paying back what they paid out and if that amount is too high then you get dropped. (I'll put my soapbox away on this)

I also believe that the CPSC should not be involved here. The CPSC was designed to force manufacturers of items to insure their product is not designed or manufactured faulty or otherwise could cause injury or harm, through negligence of poor design/production/materials. There are mandated safety features that make sense, but is it the fault of the manufacturer or the user ? The product or how it's being used. We see many instances of people doing mildly to outrageous things in wood working that make us shudder.

I am all for products being safer, and I honestly don't mind the saw stop or blade brake (wish I had one), as an option. But mandating it I'm not sure how I feel about that. I see it on one hand, but I also see it as a slippery slope. What do they require next due to the improper use or carelessness ?

I have a friend who is a sheriff, and he told me one, there is no such thing as an accident, someone made a mistake. Either during the manufacture, or maintenance, or use. Something that causes unexpected behavior from normal operation.

For us, it is the same, but sometimes wood can have surprises in store for us. I worry everytime I fire up a powertool. I often wonder if a blade brake would make me less worry some I as I use my TS. Dunno.

I think safety devices are awesome, it's the mandate that bothers me.

[mike stenson]

ahhhh the 'slippery slope' trope


Manufacturers wouldn't include blade guards, or riving knives if they didn't have to.

[John Lanciani]

ahhhh the 'slippery slope' trope


Manufacturers wouldn't include blade guards, or riving knives if they didn't have to.

Delta has been making blade guards for their saws since the mid 1930's, CPSC was formed in 1972.

[Keith Christopher]

ahhhh the 'slippery slope' trope


Manufacturers wouldn't include blade guards, or riving knives if they didn't have to.

Ahh the "Manufacturers wouldn't do <blah blah blah> if they didn't have to." trope.


Just because something is of common use does not invalidate an assertion simply because one calls it a trope.
It just show an unwillingness to consider the assertion as it opposes one's opinion.

[Edward Weber]

I also believe that the CPSC should not be involved here. The CPSC was designed to force manufacturers of items to insure their product is not designed or manufactured faulty or otherwise could cause injury or harm, through negligence of poor design/production/materials. There are mandated safety features that make sense, but is it the fault of the manufacturer or the user ? The product or how it's being used. We see many instances of people doing mildly to outrageous things in wood working that make us shudder.

Exactly

If a table saw is operated properly there is little danger of any type of injury. There are years of evidence to back this up, it is a fact.

It has been the position of Mr Gass and SS that, any saw without their tech is inherently unsafe. This is their opinion and can not be proven unless the saw is being used in an unsafe manner, which undermines their claim.

I say this as someone who has all their digits and who has also been working with tools daily for almost 45 years.
ANY tool can be unsafe if used improperly.

[jack duren]

Inexperience at the commercial shop is why I got hurt. I was asked to do something but the owner that I should not have been doing. My trainer was told not to help me and I ended up getting hurt..

[Keith Christopher]

Inexperience at the commercial shop is why I got hurt. I was asked to do something but the owner that I should not have been doing. My trainer was told not to help me and I ended up getting hurt..

Oh man sorry to hear that. Hope the outcome wasn't severe.

[jack duren]

Oh man sorry to hear that. Hope the outcome wasn't severe.

Almost 40 years ago…

[Alex Zeller]

Who makes the Table saws for Sawstop? Harvey, Geetech, someone else? If it's not Sawstop you can bet that once the patents run out it'll take no time for that company to start painting them every color, from gold to green. Unless there's a clause in the contract that they can't there's no reverse engineering needed.

[mike stenson]

Ahh the "Manufacturers wouldn't do <blah blah blah> if they didn't have to." trope.


Just because something is of common use does not invalidate an assertion simply because one calls it a trope.
It just show an unwillingness to consider the assertion as it opposes one's opinion.

as funny as it may sound, I actually work in hardware engineering. We wouldn't include safety devices either, without actual legal requirements. Because they're expensive, and really provide limited market advantage.

I remember when seat belts were optional. I guess since they're required now, we're well down that 'slippery slope' too... yea, that's a trope. Consumer protections are why you can trust the food supply too.

[Patrick Varley]

Because they're expensive, and really provide limited market advantage.

I think this is a key point. Going back to the beginning of the story, Gass supposedly offered to license the tech to companies after he first invented it. They all said no, likely because they didn't think it added any real value in the context of selling more saws.

One of the reasons this conversation gets hashed out every 6 months is because those companies were wrong. The safety feature did offer value when put on an otherwise solid saw.

[Paul Koenigs]

Not to be morbid / callous / gross, but the only thing we pay for in this scenario is for the road crew to scoop up the remnants of skull and brain matter off the highway. That guy is dead.

Nope, people survive motorcycle accidents. They might have a coma, brain damage, etc.. They don't all die.
His point stands. We all pay into insurance. There's people that use the insurance that have higher risk profiles than we do.

If someone wants a sawstop, that's their choice.
At the same time, if someone does a risk-reward analysis and decides that dumping their current saw and buying a sawstop is not a good financial decision, that should be respected too.
I do not have a sawstop.. honestly, in terms of risk of getting injured, it's way down the list of stuff I do.
Driving a car, riding a bike, crossing the street.. heck anything involving other people is a heck of a lot more dangerous than me using a tablesaw by myself, no one else in the room. I should have to pay thousands of dollars and throw away a perfectly good saw to make the insurance companies happier.
Where does it stop? Is the government going to mandate "stopping" technology on bandsaws, jointers, drill presses?
How about a lock on the hood of your car to prevent you from accidently sticking your hand in the engine while it's running?
We need less government regulation in our lives, not more.

[Keith Christopher]

as funny as it may sound, I actually work in hardware engineering. We wouldn't include safety devices either, without actual legal requirements. Because they're expensive, and really provide limited market advantage.

I remember when seat belts were optional. I guess since they're required now, we're well down that 'slippery slope' too... yea, that's a trope. Consumer protections are why you can trust the food supply too.

It does sound funny.

Allow me to trope some more.

Now they're trying to pass a bill that all vehicles produced from 2026 on will be required that have a "kill switch" you know for safety.

"Specifically, Section 24220 of the bill directs the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to develop rules that would require new cars to be equipped with technology that "passively monitors the performance of a driver," identifies whether they may be impaired and prevents or limits motor vehicle operation "if an impairment is detected."

Hope you're driving is on point if your car thinks you are driving poorly well you're not driving at all. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Dave Roock]

Yes it is very simple - as I was taught your actual cutting time is very short. Put all day dreaming out of your mind for that short time, think ONLY of your cut and keep your fingers away from the blade. The danger of Sawstop is complacency, other power tools do not have this feature yet demand respect at the risk of injury.