Bandsaw woes continue

[andrew whicker]

I guess that rubber cement didn't work so well

20240208_133305.jpg

[Richard Coers]

Did you just make a butt joint or was it a long skive joint? Water or solvent based contact cement? My first big bandsaw was an ancient 32" wheel machine. I glued 3/16" thick fiber reinforced conveyor belting to the wheels with no problems.

[Tom Trees]

Not being a contributor, so can only guess what's the pictures are like.
Looks fairly involved to me, if you're using cheap contact adhesive.
Waiting for it to tack, adding another coat, and getting it on quickly, whilst being pre stretched.
No chance of the dowel trick for the job, one can see why Van Huskey suggests the 3m stuff, or slow cure epoxy instead.
Screenshot-2022-5-26 How It's Made Band Saws(2).jpg

No mention of other tires, like the Carter rubber like ones which Erik mentioned might be worth consideration,
They appear like the type being installed on the General to me, so probably amongst the best off the shelf option for replacing vulcanized,
being nice and thick.
Bobby at Woodworker's tool works is suggested in this recent thread from the OWWM site, concerning a Crescent saw that won't hold tires.
I presume those are also very nice on something smaller, than the saw Keith Rucker's finished working on.
Think I may have heard of Bobby being mentioned in the vids?
https://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=246528

Not sure if you'd get better options to those, from what I've somewhat researched before.

All the best
Tom

[John TenEyck]

Have you considered getting vulcanized tires put on the wheels? Best performance and life.

[andrew whicker]

I am going to buy oem ones from Europe for$200 shipped. I thought I would save money with rubber ones but the amount of hours put into this proves me wrong.

I put the oem worn out one that came w the bandsaw on the upper wheel to try again.

Dialed everything in perfectly. Bumped power. Things seemed fine. Ran it for 30 seconds and the bottom tire blew apart

Lol. Wtf is up w this thing. Everyone using contact cement on rubber tires? Yeah sure. Not for me I guess.

[Tom Trees]

I wouldn't buy OEM tires for a non grooved wheel.
They're very thin, and you'd have to cut off the tongue.
I also thought these were flat, and that I could simply mount them inside out, to dress the last of it off.

I didn't realize the pictures on the Scott and Sargeant website, were NOT the tire in question,
and is just a random picture you can buy online, should you Google "stock photo".
i.e, what's likely to be something from the USA!

If you're going to have another bash with the original real rubber, then it's worth noting that contact adhesive is often used in conjunction with an element to keep
things very warm.
Screenshot-2023-6-14 ACM 440 Bandsaw Range - YouTube.jpg

And some more tips are out there, but perhaps not too easily found.
Bobby would be worth a search, if not Google, then OWWM, and perhaps you might have better luck searching for Chris Vesper's setup than I have found
(I don't do social media)
Failing that, you will see it used effectively on youtube, if you see some shoe repair folks setup.
Screenshot-2022-5-18 Resoling Timberland Boots Vibram Soles Timberland Boot Upgrade - YouTube(1).jpg


Good luck
Tom

[andrew whicker]

Mine has a groove.

Ha! Put the old tires on and it works fine. I think the real issue must have been the bottom shaft alignment and maybe some of the umpteen blades I went thru.

Holy crap. I think I'll still buy oem ones and get some blades again.

20240208_163411.jpg

[Tom Trees]

Mine has a groove.


20240208_163411.jpg

Thanks for clarifying that Andrew.
So there is a one hour serviceable Centauro CO out there.
Good to know for others who don't have the time to make the newer ones fully adjustable.

So the only thing missing on that machine is the mitre slot, which for those who also have an eye for pleasing design,
might be happy about the grooved wheels, thus bumping this machine up the list,
and of those folks who like refinements, wouldn't be too dismissive of an optional cross cutting rail.
Could likely even have it hinging, or quickly mountable if tight of space.

Nice to hear you've got them tires working for you.

All the best
Tom

[Kevin Jenness]

I have been following your trials with this saw. I gather that you have shimmed one of the wheels axially to make them coplanar, removed the tires, cleaned the metal surfaces and reinstalled the original tires. Is that correct? Is the saw running smoothly now? Did you do anything else that was effective?

[andrew whicker]

I did start by making the wheels co planar as best as possible via my laser. Meaning under tension. When I did that the blade ran about 3/16" more towards the back of the machine on the lower wheel.

My thought was that, well the bottom wheel must be sticking too far forward. So I made a new spacer. Same problem.

I went back to the original spacer and wasn't sure what to think. I was within a mm of the laser, but the blade was still acting like that.

Anywho, I got new tires in the meantime and those quickly became a huge annoyance. The orange ones said no glue. That didn't work at all. Then they said, well try a gasket sealer. Imo, that was too thick and caused a lot of bumpiness in the tires.

Then I moved onto rubber tires. Okay. This is the good stuff. Reputable company etc etc. The rubber obviously needs adhesive. It's very stretchy, no real snappiness to it or hardness.

I use contact cement per vendor. Both my upper and lower tires come off within 30 seconds. Lower one explodes.

My only theory: 600 mm wheels are smaller than 24 inch wheels. My circumference is 1.25 inches less than a 24 inch wheel. So maybe that's it. Both tire vendors said the 24 inch tire should work. I'm not so sure. I did use the contact cement at the lower end of temp range (around 60 F). But whatever mix of reasons it didn't work. Never again for me.

Obviously thru this whole ordeal I'm getting to understand the mechanics of the machine better. And right before I start the machine to watch the lower tire explode I have a thought. I need this blade to run the same on both wheels and I don't care what the co planar is. So I adjusted the bottom shaft to make the blade run at the same axial location for both wheels.

Lower tire still explodes, explode, whatever. I'm pretty sure I got it dialed this time.

Put on the old tire. Boom. Works.

So, in retrospect... never again rubber. Never again gasket sealant or cement.

Adjust top wheel as needed. Adjust bottom shaft as needed. Iterate as necessary. And that is all you need to do.

That was a long road and many dollars.

[Ron Selzer]

Andrew and all who responded than you for the tutorial on bandsaws. I sincerely hope to never have to get that deep in one, however know way more now than before this thread stated.
Thanks
Ron

[andrew whicker]

I will say (and I should have earlier) that I really appreciate all the help and follow thru I received along the way. It was a very annoying problem and I was very angry dealing it with most days.

I probably came off that way a few times. Apologies.

It was a roller coaster

[Rod Sheridan]

I am going to buy oem ones from Europe for$200 shipped. I thought I would save money with rubber ones but the amount of hours put into this proves me wrong.

I put the oem worn out one that came w the bandsaw on the upper wheel to try again.

Dialed everything in perfectly. Bumped power. Things seemed fine. Ran it for 30 seconds and the bottom tire blew apart

Lol. Wtf is up w this thing. Everyone using contact cement on rubber tires? Yeah sure. Not for me I guess.

It works fine, my band mill for example uses strip flat tire material mounted with high strength solvent based contact cement.

Regards, Rod

[John TenEyck]

I did start by making the wheels co planar as best as possible via my laser. Meaning under tension. When I did that the blade ran about 3/16" more towards the back of the machine on the lower wheel.

My thought was that, well the bottom wheel must be sticking too far forward. So I made a new spacer. Same problem.

I went back to the original spacer and wasn't sure what to think. I was within a mm of the laser, but the blade was still acting like that.

Anywho, I got new tires in the meantime and those quickly became a huge annoyance. The orange ones said no glue. That didn't work at all. Then they said, well try a gasket sealer. Imo, that was too thick and caused a lot of bumpiness in the tires.

Then I moved onto rubber tires. Okay. This is the good stuff. Reputable company etc etc. The rubber obviously needs adhesive. It's very stretchy, no real snappiness to it or hardness.

I use contact cement per vendor. Both my upper and lower tires come off within 30 seconds. Lower one explodes.

My only theory: 600 mm wheels are smaller than 24 inch wheels. My circumference is 1.25 inches less than a 24 inch wheel. So maybe that's it. Both tire vendors said the 24 inch tire should work. I'm not so sure. I did use the contact cement at the lower end of temp range (around 60 F). But whatever mix of reasons it didn't work. Never again for me.

Obviously thru this whole ordeal I'm getting to understand the mechanics of the machine better. And right before I start the machine to watch the lower tire explode I have a thought. I need this blade to run the same on both wheels and I don't care what the co planar is. So I adjusted the bottom shaft to make the blade run at the same axial location for both wheels.

Lower tire still explodes, explode, whatever. I'm pretty sure I got it dialed this time.

Put on the old tire. Boom. Works.

So, in retrospect... never again rubber. Never again gasket sealant or cement.

Adjust top wheel as needed. Adjust bottom shaft as needed. Iterate as necessary. And that is all you need to do.

That was a long road and many dollars.

Well, yeah, that's a huge difference. No wonder they didn't work. Contact cement works well on tires of the proper size. Back in the day, tubeless bicycle tires were glued to the rim with a type of contact cement. Imagine if that didn't hold?

And I'd scratch those vendors off my list.

John

[andrew whicker]

what brand of contact cement?