Phase Perfect Location

[John Pendery]

Hey Everyone,

I’ll be installing a phase perfect converter next week, and I’m debating where to mount it. I visited a shop yesterday with the same size phase perfect to get an idea of the noise I should expect. Not terrible, but enough that I’m considering mounting mine in an out of the way conditioned attic, and wiring a red light by my three phase panel to indicate when it is powered up.

My primary question is regarding replacing capacitors and how difficult/time consuming it is to replace them. After discussions with phase perfect, and reading past threads on maintenance, I expect to be replacing them every 12-18 months.

The space I have in mind is not terribly cramped, but also not as convenient as the eye level space between my single phase and three phase panels. I know some folks can’t even hear the sound these make, but I definitely can, and I spend pretty much all day every day in the shop and would prefer less noise when machines aren’t running if possible.

Any other upsides/downsides I’m not considering before buying supplies to wire it up?

[Tom Bain]

John — I can’t comment on the capacitor replacement as I haven’t done that yet, although I should. The noise is definitely noticeable. I have my PP on the lower level of my shop which has an open staircase connecting the levels and I can definitely hear that buzzy hum. I normally have music going so it’s not the worst, but also not the best. If you are looking for the quietest shop possible then locating the unit in your attic is a good idea. I also strongly recommend using the remote switch feature if you are going to mount it somewhere less accessible. It’s really easy to do and saves me from walking downstairs to turn the 3-phase on/off.

[Warren Lake]

have a remote switch put on and it works great. Plan to go into the unit and line all the sheet steel with Dux seal, it will cut down big on the noise. It could also sit on a patio stone with rubber under it and more.

[Paul J Kelly]

John,

I have never heard that capacitors in Phase Perfect converters need to be replaced that often. I have had mine for 2 years with no issues. Many of the people on the FOG have had them for many years with total reliability.

I am a fan of Phase Perfect. I am not a fan of the sound it makes. I bought NEMA 3r versions to install them outside.

PK

[John Pendery]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I thought about the outdoor enclosure, but the logical place to put it on my shop is very exposed to weather and sun. I know their outdoor enclosures are built to withstand pretty harsh outdoor applications, but having the upstairs space available tipped the scales in that direction. The installation guide recommends placing it in line of site of breaker panel supplying power. Sounds like this is not critical as they do sell outdoor enclosures after all.

PK, I’m just going by my conversation with a sales guy at phase perfect. Pretty sure the shop I visited last week had a ten or fifteen year old unit that hadn’t been touched and was working just fine. I think it sees pretty light use though. Almost all of my equipment has built in electronic (inductive?) braking that the rep told me was hard on capacitors. I’m guessing that’s why he recommended periodic replacement. Good to know you are two years in with no trouble!

Tom, is the remote switch feature a literal remote like you’d have for a DC system, or the shutoff switch they offer to build into the unit? I was considering wiring a disconnect between the single phase supply and the converter to avoid using a breaker as a switch.

How long are each of your electrical runs from your single phase panel to the phase perfect, and then back to your three phase panel? I know shorter is always better, but my ideal installation would have about 20’ runs to get the thing in a convenient and quiet location.

thanks again for the feedback!

[Steve Jenkins]

I have a Kay that I’ve had for 24 years no problems. The install instructions said to use a fused disconnect which I did.

[Paul J Kelly]

John,

The PP's come with a "loop" inside the case that allows the PP to be put in a standby mode. You can wire it to a basic low voltage switch to remotely take it out of standby/turn it on. I have it set up like that to a light switch near the door to the shop. In standby the unit makes no sound, but does pull a minimal amount of power (74 watts IIRC). I turn the breaker off when I am out of the shop for the day. I turn it on at the beginning of the day and use the standby switch when I need to run machines. This is a no-cost option. The disconnect switch that is an option is like a full power disconnect. Since I have mine outside, it would not be useful to me.

I have mine pretty close to the main panel on the back side of the same wall. Probably has 10' of cable to connect it. the three phase panel that is connected to the PP is close also, probably 7' of cable to it. As long as you are using the correctly sized and recommended main breaker and the properly sized wire for input and output, I see no issue with where you would mount it. I mean they mount these in agricultural settings in fields...

PK

[John Pendery]

PK, I considered the disconnect option, but at something like $500+ I decided I could make my own for much less. I just want to be able to kill power to it at the end of each day without flipping a breaker.

Do any of you have experience running wide belt sanders at or near the rated horsepower threshold on the PP? I’m hoping to run a 16.5 KW wide belt on a 20hp PP. Seems like a big ask, but the rep said he thought it would work.

[Tom Bain]

Tom, is the remote switch feature a literal remote like you’d have for a DC system, or the shutoff switch they offer to build into the unit? I was considering wiring a disconnect between the single phase supply and the converter to avoid using a breaker as a switch.

How long are each of your electrical runs from your single phase panel to the phase perfect, and then back to your three phase panel? I know shorter is always better, but my ideal installation would have about 20’ runs to get the thing in a convenient and quiet location.

It's the shutoff switch loop they have built into the unit, which Paul described very well. Really simple to wire up, although I'm sure there is probably a way to actually have a "remote control" for someone smarter than I am. I've never felt the need for that ... and I try not to turn the PP off and on too frequently. As you probably know, it takes about 10 seconds for the unit to "boot up".

My unit and 3 phase panel is very close to the main single phase panel as that was most convenient.

[John Pendery]

Tom, I fell the same. Definitely no need for a remote switch, I was just curious what option you were referring to. The most logical spot, noise aside, is the four feet of wall space directly in between my single phase and three phase panel. Unless there is an adverse effect on performance I believe I’ll go to the extra effort to install it upstairs where I can’t hear it buzzing. I’m very curious what other phase perfect user’s experience is with wide belts or other hard starting loads at or near rated capacity.

[Alan Lightstone]

I installed mine next to the main circuit breaker panels. Yes it makes a little noise, but that doesn't bother me at all. In fact, it's been useful many times as I forget to flip the disconnect to turn the unit off when I leave the shop. I hear the buzzing, and it reminds me to turn it off. To me that 375 some odd watts that it's drawing when I forget to turn it off is more than the entire LED light power usage in the house, so that's a big deal. And whatever that 75 wall standby usage is (never heard of that with mine), that's also just a waste of energy. I had a disconnect installed, and just flip it off.

[Paul J Kelly]

John,

There are people on the FOG that are running 37" Wide Belts with the 10hp PP!

They are very conservatively rated.

PK

[John Pendery]

John,

There are people on the FOG that are running 37" Wide Belts with the 10hp PP!

They are very conservatively rated.

PK

Whoa! I would not have guessed that possible. I emailed the rep this morning and he said the 20hp PP should handle close to 200 start up amps. I got my 20hp delivered today and just need to decide if I’m going to be lazy and install it on the main shop floor right between my panels, or buy the extra wire/conduit to get it upstairs in a closet. I think I’ll go upstairs with it and wire up a red indicator light downstairs so I remember to shut it off at the end of the day, but the price of all that extra 1 AWG might change my mind when I get to my electric supplier.

[John Pendery]

Installed the 20hp unit today between my single phase and three phase panels on the main shop floor. I figure if I decide to move it upstairs I’ll put a disconnect where it now sits. First impression is that it seems quieter than the shop I visited last week. Maybe my imagination.

Question to those that turn their phase perfect off by flipping the breaker on the single phase panel: is this code (pictured) normal?

IMG_5211.jpg

For some reason I find it very odd and unnatural that there is not a way to turn it off besides the single phase breaker.

Besides that I’m amazed at how easy this thing was to install. I think the entire process took me 30 minutes. From an installation and initial use standpoint, I can’t recommend one of these enough. Hope that initial impression continues with daily use!

[Alan Lightstone]

My electrician installed one of those lever disconnects that disconnects the power between the main panel and the Phase Perfect unit. The display totally turns off. It has no power.