Thoughts on SCM FS 41ES vs Felder AD941 vs Separate Jointer/Planer

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey guys so I currently have a Hammer A3-41 Jointer/Planer combo. It's 16" wide and about 70" long. It works well, but it's not as long or as flat as I would like, but good enough so far.

I'm thinking of making an upgrade. I specifically want more length and just a higher quality machine overall. I was thinking about the Felder, but Sam Blasco made a pretty damn good case for the SCM instead.

My biggest question on these is if I have the space (which I'm not sure I do), are there any separate units that would be a better choice? The combos are both about $13k. It seems like the nice/long jointers out there Laguna/Powermatic are all made in China and cost about $10k, then a similar level planer would be about $4k. So I'm just curious if anyone has any recommendations on what they would do if money/space wasn't a huge problem. I'm not saying it isn't, because I'm definitely stretching my budget BIG time to make this work. But I just want to make a smart decision for probably the final jointer/planer I'll ever buy.

Thanks

[John TenEyck]

If you have the space, separate machines are the way to go. You can get long bed jointers that you will never find in a combo unit. Tables over 100" long, which translates into being able to easily run a straight edge on something over 12 ft long. That should meet most anyone's needs. And you may find that a 12" jointer is plenty if you have a 20" planer.

John

[Aaron Inami]

If you are looking at a combo jointer/planer, the general consensus is that Minimax is recommended. The Felder combo jointer/planers have a slew of problems and challenges. This is even discussed over on the Felder Owners Group (where we generally like Felder! lol). If you want separate jointer/planer machines, only the Felder A951L or the Format4 plan 51L should be considered as they do not have the compromised table lift geometry or adjustment issues. However, I believe they still do have their problems. If you want a good dedicated jointer, go for SCM/Minimax or a Jet/Powermatic/Laguna/Oliver etc. A new 12" jointer is $7-9k. You can actually get an Oliver 16" jointer for $9k even.

[Michael Burnside]

I'm just a serious hobbyist and initially I thought I wanted the A3-41 until I used one. I just didn't like how short it was. I wasn't a huge fan of "combo" and going back and forth, but I was fine with the idea. In the end, I went with a Powermatic PJ-882HHT with 82" wings and I freak'n love it. It is such a beautiful machine. Running 6-8' boards is so, so easy and smooth. I also have a separate 15HH planer since, like you, I have space to spare. I just like having the two machines and 8" is plenty for me. I like Powermatic, but if it bothers you, go Felder or SCM or Oliver or Laguna. It's your money after all!

[Jim Becker]

If you have the space, keep the current jointer/thicknesser for the latter and get an "aircraft carrier" jointer. If you want to stay with a combo, the SCM is a mighty fine machine and you can't go wrong working with Sam.

Also think about how often you really need a long jointer bed. I have found over the years that with good planning, I very rarely have to flatten anything longer than 5-6'. It's rare for me to have a project that requires that. But what I make may not be what you make.

[Warren Lake]

set up temp infeed and outfeed support. You can joint any length you want if you have feel and support on in and out.

[Ned Otter]

I had to make this decision a few years ago - my shop is long, but narrow (just under 12 feet), and I opted for separate machines for jointer/planer (both SCM). I got 16" width in each, and I wanted to be able to handle long pieces up to 8 feet in length (wife likes to garden...)

Have not regretted my decision; it is highly likely these will be the last machines I purchase, and was tired of the yellow stuff.

Feel free to DM me if you need specifics

Ned

[roger wiegand]

Not sure if it's a fair comparison, but I upgraded from separate jointer and planer (6" and ~13" respectively, relatively heavy duty delta machines) to a FS41ES. It's like having died and gone to heaven. It also takes up less floor space in my shop and made for a more efficient layout since I only need standing access from one side now (I had them back to side before so they used ~the same clear space for board clearance). I thought the changeovers would be a PITA, but in retrospect they are not so bad. Sure in an ideal world I'd have separates. SCM could make the changeover process a lot easier by adding a preset stop so you could lower the planer table with a single button push rather than having to stand there and hold the button down.

I'm astonished at the accuracy and the finish quality of the cuts. I've even started trusting the machine to the point where I don't leave an extra several inches on the boards for snipe-- it just doesn't happen. I've been dimensioning organ pipe parts for the last several months, the desired accuracy is a couple tenths of a mm. The planer consistently delivers that; with this machine I just dial it into the DRO and the machine delivers, with a cut quality that is good enough to glue straight away without distorting the piece by sanding or planing.

I can't offer comparisons among high end machines but I have zero regrets about making this swap!

[Brian Holcombe]

I have an FS41ES, I’m pretty happy with it. It’s far more reliable in terms of quality result than many of the budget minded separates. If you can budget for similar quality machines then in that case I would do separates.

[Josh Baldwin]

If you have the space, separate machines are the way to go. You can get long bed jointers that you will never find in a combo unit. Tables over 100" long, which translates into being able to easily run a straight edge on something over 12 ft long. That should meet most anyone's needs. And you may find that a 12" jointer is plenty if you have a 20" planer.

John

Yea I definitely can't go back down to 12" now that I have 16"! Ha. I do like the idea of separates even though it would be tight, but I'm just worried about the quality of those machines (Laguna/Powermatic) since they're all made in China and I can't seem to find any reviews at all of their larger ones.

[Josh Baldwin]

If you are looking at a combo jointer/planer, the general consensus is that Minimax is recommended. The Felder combo jointer/planers have a slew of problems and challenges. This is even discussed over on the Felder Owners Group (where we generally like Felder! lol). If you want separate jointer/planer machines, only the Felder A951L or the Format4 plan 51L should be considered as they do not have the compromised table lift geometry or adjustment issues. However, I believe they still do have their problems. If you want a good dedicated jointer, go for SCM/Minimax or a Jet/Powermatic/Laguna/Oliver etc. A new 12" jointer is $7-9k. You can actually get an Oliver 16" jointer for $9k even.

Yea I agree it seems like the SCM is the way to go. Unfortunately I'm not sure the pricing on the stand alone SCM jointers/planers makes a lot of sense vs the combo. Do you have any experience with the Oliver jointers? I can't seem to find any reviews of these newer ones and I'm just worried about the quality since they're made in China.

[Josh Baldwin]

If you have the space, keep the current jointer/thicknesser for the latter and get an "aircraft carrier" jointer. If you want to stay with a combo, the SCM is a mighty fine machine and you can't go wrong working with Sam.

Also think about how often you really need a long jointer bed. I have found over the years that with good planning, I very rarely have to flatten anything longer than 5-6'. It's rare for me to have a project that requires that. But what I make may not be what you make.

Yea it's not often I need over 7', but there are times where it's a bit annoying. I just kind of want a higher quality machine in general. I think right now if I do decide to upgrade that the SCM is probably the way to go. I was just hoping to hear from someone who maybe has the 16" Oliver or Powermatic to ask about quality control/flatness, etc.

[Josh Baldwin]

I had to make this decision a few years ago - my shop is long, but narrow (just under 12 feet), and I opted for separate machines for jointer/planer (both SCM). I got 16" width in each, and I wanted to be able to handle long pieces up to 8 feet in length (wife likes to garden...)

Have not regretted my decision; it is highly likely these will be the last machines I purchase, and was tired of the yellow stuff.

Feel free to DM me if you need specifics

Ned

Yea if I go with separates I'm not sure I can justify the pricing on the SCM stuff. It seems like it would be over $20k at that point, which just can't happen right now.

[Josh Baldwin]

Not sure if it's a fair comparison, but I upgraded from separate jointer and planer (6" and ~13" respectively, relatively heavy duty delta machines) to a FS41ES. It's like having died and gone to heaven. It also takes up less floor space in my shop and made for a more efficient layout since I only need standing access from one side now (I had them back to side before so they used ~the same clear space for board clearance). I thought the changeovers would be a PITA, but in retrospect they are not so bad. Sure in an ideal world I'd have separates. SCM could make the changeover process a lot easier by adding a preset stop so you could lower the planer table with a single button push rather than having to stand there and hold the button down.

I'm astonished at the accuracy and the finish quality of the cuts. I've even started trusting the machine to the point where I don't leave an extra several inches on the boards for snipe-- it just doesn't happen. I've been dimensioning organ pipe parts for the last several months, the desired accuracy is a couple tenths of a mm. The planer consistently delivers that; with this machine I just dial it into the DRO and the machine delivers, with a cut quality that is good enough to glue straight away without distorting the piece by sanding or planing.

I can't offer comparisons among high end machines but I have zero regrets about making this swap!

Good to know. It seems like everyone really loves their FS41ES machines. Did you go single phase or 3 phase? I'm wondering if I should just use a phase converter, but I don't know a lot about them to be honest.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have an FS41ES, I’m pretty happy with it. It’s far more reliable in terms of quality result than many of the budget minded separates. If you can budget for similar quality machines then in that case I would do separates.

Did you go with the 3 phase or single phase machine? Thanks