We need more trade schools

[dennis thompson]

There is an interesting story in the Wall Street Journal about a trade/vocational school in St George, Maine.
There were no trade schools in the district, so St George decided to create one but the school district wouldn’t allow it,( how crazy is that?).
So St George broke off and created their own district with a new trade school. Not just in high school but in all grades beginning in kindergarten.
The story cites several students who were bored and doing poorly in school. When they switched to the trade program their interest and grades improved.
I think there are many students who would benefit by switching to a trade school.
We need more trade/vocational schools and school districts like the one in St George.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

That is a neat story. There is a whole lot of liability involved in teaching the trades. The small town schools around central MO simply can not afford the premiums for insurance that covers allowing kids to use tools. The entire AG shop program at the little school I attended no longer exists. We do have very good trade schools. They have become consolidated efforts and the kids are bussed in from a big area.

[Lamar Keeney]

We have lost many trade schools in our state what is left has been limited in what they offer. Mostly IT and medical. After our industries left the country due to NAFTA There was no demand for many of the trades and now that the ones that were left are retiring there is no one to fill their place.

[Jim Koepke]

Especially with manufacturing moving back to North America we need to teach trades and related subjects more than ever.

I recall many years ago listening to a speaker who lamented so much of our education system being focused on the college bound. He asked, "what about those who are work bound or bound for a normal life?"

If students have the ability, they should be taught how to trouble shoot things around the home that may need minor repairs. Students should be taught how to use tools. I've seen many a person unaware of the proper way to use a Crescent wrench so it doesn't slip and round over the corners on a nut or bolt.

Then there is learning how to cook food that isn't prepackaged to be warmed up in a microwave.

jtk

[jack duren]

As far as I know school wood shop and farming isn’t even considered a trade anymore. With everybody looking for a reason to sue, I can understand shutting down school woodshop. I took wood shop in school and made a career from it. I’m the only one that I know that did..

the last cabinet makers union was in KC. There all just carpenters union now..

[Dave Fritz]

Wisconsin has a large network of Vocational Schools. There are several issues at play, one, legislatures require more and more from the curriculum and place an emphasis on performance testing without adding additional resources. Some classes cost more to have, for example English is a much cheaper class to have than shop class. Chemistry and associated lab sciences are also more expensive than social studies etc. We also have school employee shortages. Aids can make more at Target than working in the school. Teachers ability to organize and have a say about working conditions and salary have been taken away. Better to sell insurance and be your own boss. Legislatures have also given tremendous power to parents, so much so that demands are made on schools and kids are able to get away with almost anything and there's no option for discipline. The authority of the teacher has been taken away. There is no accountability for misbehavior. I feel sorry for kids that are in classes with disrespectful spoiled kids whose parents are suppositive of their kid. The "good kids" suffer in the end.

[Jim Becker]

Our county has excellent vocatation/trade schools that are utilized by multiple school districts. They also have adult programs. That said, it needs to become more acceptable "socially" for folks to choose trades over university. Many of us here in this forum as well as our kids all heard the "you need a college education to get ahead" mantra constantly which in turn influenced things like investment in vocational education. It's only been recently that more people are hearing the wake-up call in a hard way...such as when they try to hire a trade and either can't find someone or have to wait a substantial period of time for an appointment. There's been a substantial "greying" of folks in the trades, too, because of this and we're now playing catch up as a society because people retire. Many did retire in the past few years because of "the global event", as a matter of fact, which made it easy given most "elective" work came to a stop. Dave brings up a good point about valuing the folks who teach, too.

I'll add one other important thing here. I have a female acquaintance who is the only woman journeyman in a 600+ member millwright union in the mid-west. Not only are women not represented in the trades in numbers, my friend indicates that she and others who have tried to stick around, have been treated poorly by the males they need to work with. It's not about skills. It's about deep seated, um...learned behavior...that is frankly immoral. I truly admire my friend for sticking it out for over four years now so she can support her now 12 year old son and make a good living. But I abhor what she has had to endure just because she has indoor plumbing rather than outdoor plumbing. BTW, her work has been in huge manufacturing facilities as well as building 300' tall windmills. It's hard work, but even as a 5'2" 120 lb human, she carries her load in the work.

[Edward Weber]

Our county has excellent vocatation/trade schools that are utilized by multiple school districts. They also have adult programs. That said, it needs to become more acceptable "socially" for folks to choose trades over university. Many of us here in this forum as well as our kids all heard the "you need a college education to get ahead" mantra constantly which in turn influenced things like investment in vocational education. It's only been recently that more people are hearing the wake-up call in a hard way...such as when they try to hire a trade and either can't find someone or have to wait a substantial period of time for an appointment. There's been a substantial "greying" of folks in the trades, too, because of this and we're now playing catch up as a society because people retire. Many did retire in the past few years because of "the global event", as a matter of fact, which made it easy given most "elective" work came to a stop. Dave brings up a good point about valuing the folks who teach, too.

I'll add one other important thing here. I have a female acquaintance who is the only woman journeyman in a 600+ member millwright union in the mid-west. Not only are women not represented in the trades in numbers, my friend indicates that she and others who have tried to stick around, have been treated poorly by the males they need to work with. It's not about skills. It's about deep seated, um...learned behavior...that is frankly immoral. I truly admire my friend for sticking it out for over four years now so she can support her now 12 year old son and make a good living. But I abhor what she has had to endure just because she has indoor plumbing rather than outdoor plumbing. BTW, her work has been in huge manufacturing facilities as well as building 300' tall windmills. It's hard work, but even as a 5'2" 120 lb human, she carries her load in the work.

Jim, did they change the name of Middle Bucks Vocational Technical school to Middle Bucks Institute of Technology?

[Jim Becker]

Jim, did they change the name of Middle Bucks Vocational Technical school to Middle Bucks Institute of Technology?

Indeed they did. I've known a few kiddos who have graduated from there and one who is a current student.

https://www.mbit.org/

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Indeed they did. I've known a few kiddos who have graduated from there and one who is a current student.

https://www.mbit.org/

Where would we be without that trade school in Cambridge Mass, M.I.T. ? (we would be wishing we had a steadier hand to hold our routers).

[Edward Weber]

Indeed they did. I've known a few kiddos who have graduated from there and one who is a current student.

https://www.mbit.org/

Thanks Jim
When I graduated from there in 82, there were lots of different trades.
As far as I remember, there was;
Mechanic (gas/car)
Diesel mechanic
Carpentry
Appliance repair
Food prep
Baking
Masonry
Printing/graphic arts
Machine shop
Auto Body
Cosmotology
Electronics of some kind
and some more I can't remember right now.
There was a modular (two piece) home built every year and I believe it was auctioned off.

[Jim Becker]

Ed, the building trade programs at MBIT still do the modular home each year back behind the main building (which I believe has changed quite a bit since you were there) It's a great way to learn "on an actual job" while enjoying the benefits of being on the school site as well as for any financial benefits that come from the structure becoming someone's home.

[Jerry Bruette]

I'll add one other important thing here. I have a female acquaintance who is the only woman journeyman in a 600+ member millwright union in the mid-west. Not only are women not represented in the trades in numbers, my friend indicates that she and others who have tried to stick around, have been treated poorly by the males they need to work with. It's not about skills. It's about deep seated, um...learned behavior...that is frankly immoral. I truly admire my friend for sticking it out for over four years now so she can support her now 12 year old son and make a good living. But I abhor what she has had to endure just because she has indoor plumbing rather than outdoor plumbing. BTW, her work has been in huge manufacturing facilities as well as building 300' tall windmills. It's hard work, but even as a 5'2" 120 lb human, she carries her load in the work.

I didn't work out of a union hall, but I know a few people who did. My understanding is that the "learned behavior" comes from being afraid of someone you view as less capable doing the job as well or better than you. I've heard stories of journeymen training apprentices and not giving them all the information or knowledge to do a job out of fear of being replaced by the apprentice.

[Jim Becker]

I didn't work out of a union hall, but I know a few people who did. My understanding is that the "learned behavior" comes from being afraid of someone you view as less capable doing the job as well or better than you. I've heard stories of journeymen training apprentices and not giving them all the information or knowledge to do a job out of fear of being replaced by the apprentice.

Yea, I'm sure that where some of it stems from but it's amplified by the "horror" that a woman could do as good or better job...especially when she does.

[Edward Weber]

I was fortunate enough to have a trade school affiliated with my high school.
The school served 5 different districts. Students went 1/2 day to regular school, then the other 1/2 trade school, or as we called it VoTech or just Tech.
Just about everyone I knew who went, continued on in some sort or trade.

I agree, they're sorely needed now