We need more trade schools

[Jim Becker]

Ed, the building trade programs at MBIT still do the modular home each year back behind the main building (which I believe has changed quite a bit since you were there) It's a great way to learn "on an actual job" while enjoying the benefits of being on the school site as well as for any financial benefits that come from the structure becoming someone's home.

[Jim Becker]

I didn't work out of a union hall, but I know a few people who did. My understanding is that the "learned behavior" comes from being afraid of someone you view as less capable doing the job as well or better than you. I've heard stories of journeymen training apprentices and not giving them all the information or knowledge to do a job out of fear of being replaced by the apprentice.

Yea, I'm sure that where some of it stems from but it's amplified by the "horror" that a woman could do as good or better job...especially when she does.

[Jason Hennry]

Absolutely agree! It's inspiring to see communities taking initiative for trade education. Tailoring education to individual interests and skills can truly make a difference in students' lives.

[Brian Elfert]

The high school I went to had a complete renovation along with an expansion 25 to 30 years ago. At some point along the way all of the industrial arts spaces were converted to other uses. No idea if this was done during the renovation. Woodworking, metal shop, and small engines are no longer taught. They have some sort of maker type class. Small engines, auto shop, and welding are offered at the other high school in the district for students at the high school with no industrial education classes, but I have no idea how students get to the other high school at attend class.

The crazy thing is now days the high school offers a bunch of business classes. When I was in high school in the late 80s there were no business classes. That is something you would be expected to learn in college. I took every industrial arts class that was offered in high school. We didn't have an auto shop so I never took any auto classes. I don't believe there was an option to take auto shop at the other high school.

[Edward Weber]

While White collar Jobs are important, they often need Blue Collar jobs to work in conjunction.
This is where Trades and Industrial Arts, etc come into play

All the computer science degrees in the world will not sweat a copper pipe connection or replace a rotten sill or ... fill in the blank.
There's no app for that, no AI is going to dig a ditch.
Someone actually has to get their hands dirty and do the physical work, even when things become automated. Someone still needs to repair the machines.
We've gotten to the time where when things fail, they're just replaced, never repaired.

[mike stenson]

I'll also point out that engineering is amongst the easiest jobs to offshore. Pretty much right after manufacturing. It's been a trend for most of the last twenty years of my career. At this point, I wouldn't recommend a STEM career.

[Curt Harms]

I think this is reflective if society today. There are very few kids building things or working on things. Too many are stuck to their phone screens. In a way, we are all responsible for letting our schools do away from shop and other similar classes.

There are too many getting college degrees that do not lead to good jobs. The trades pay pretty well and there is a big demand.

True, but in some cases job applicants must have a college degree. It may not matter what the degree is in but they must have a degree. I asked an HR type about that and was told in part that having a college degree demonstrated the ability to assimilate a lot of information in a relatively short time and demonstrated a stick-to-itness. Make of that what you will.

[Curt Harms]

I'll also point out that engineering is amongst the easiest jobs to offshore. Pretty much right after manufacturing. It's been a trend for most of the last twenty years of my career. At this point, I wouldn't recommend a STEM career.

At one point I was working with a Pakistani owned IT company. I learned that Pakistan doesn't have much in the way of natural resources so their resources were their people. Young people showing an aptitude received a technical education. This company did most of their data entry and other drudge work in Pakistan. Data generated in the U.S. went to Pakistan via the internet where it was processed, massaged and returned to the U.S. via the internet. They were paid 10% of what an American worker would receive for the same job. They were English proficient enough to be able to do their jobs, better written than spoken.

[mike stenson]

At one point I was working with a Pakistani owned IT company. I learned that Pakistan doesn't have much in the way of natural resources so their resources were their people. Young people showing an aptitude received a technical education. This company did most of their data entry and other drudge work in Pakistan. Data generated in the U.S. went to Pakistan via the internet where it was processed, massaged and returned to the U.S. via the internet. They were paid 10% of what an American worker would receive for the same job. They were English proficient enough to be able to do their jobs, better written than spoken.

Yep, first it was China, then it was Indonesia, then Pakistan and India, Hungary, Egypt, Bulgaria, Brazil, now Mexico and the rest of Latin America. It's always the next cheapest place, right after the economies develop enough for wages to go up.. And gone.

[Stan Calow]

Preaching to the choir here. Trade school education seems to have been pushed to community colleges.

For the most part, we have the education system that we deserve, and that voters are willing to fund. The parents in suburban school districts around here expect their kids to go to college. And the kids expect it to be 4 years of drunken party time, paid for and encouraged to think that way by mom & dad. So school systems are driven by that demand, The for-profit universities (all of them) compete for "customers" by dumbing down entry requirements and graduating un-prepared children in easy but worthless degrees. In other countries, you have to pass a lot of tests and compete before being admitted to higher education. More aptitude testing at the high school level is a good idea.

[Jerry Bruette]

While White collar Jobs are important, they often need Blue Collar jobs to work in conjunction.
This is where Trades and Industrial Arts, etc come into play

All the computer science degrees in the world will not sweat a copper pipe connection or replace a rotten sill or ... fill in the blank.
There's no app for that, no AI is going to dig a ditch.
Someone actually has to get their hands dirty and do the physical work, even when things become automated. Someone still needs to repair the machines.
We've gotten to the time where when things fail, they're just replaced, never repaired.

Made a decent living troubleshooting and fixing "automation". If I had been dual carded, mechanical and electrical, I could have made even more money.

[jack duren]

I don’t think we need anymore woodworking trade schools.

[Edward Weber]

I don’t think we need anymore woodworking trade schools.

I couldn't disagree more.
A school where they actually taught woodworking, not just weekend build seminars. I think we do need them.
All we have now is a handful of elite courses for weekend warriors and YouTube, for the most part. From what I've seen in th e past 20 years or so, "the basics" are just disappearing. People still cut wood and stick it together but few actually understand what they're doing and why.

It takes years to become a competent woodworker, not just some knob who makes things from pallets for clicks. No one wants to commit to learning anything in a long term situation anymore in our short attention span society. I've been woodworking for decades and there are still areas of the craft that I've only touched the surface on.
We could benefit from a few schools like this IMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llJvFYBpTu4

[Warren Lake]

Its too big for me to comment on as there are many dynamics right down to teachers. I had one school teacher tell me the guy teaching woodwork was teaching computers the week before. I lucked out got real europeans from the trade so they did their best to set up a program here dumbed down and in a smaller time frame. He taught me for 35 years after the school thing.

Years after I was out of the school the old guy was telling me hed have to have a degree to teach. Really? book knowledge over 50 years real experience. I would have lost out big time because he didn't just teach us the course he taught us real world experience from learning in munich to running huge companies here. No book worm can teach that.

I don't like the set up as it is, there isnt one, it should be a regulated trade same as plumbing and electrical. If not to protect the consumer then to protect the people in the trade. It was a more respected trade years ago. Now its becoming a content creator trade.

I lucked out so fine for me plus the 35 plus year friendship and being adopted. His wife just died on the weekend so a son 32 gone, then him, then another son 51 six months later and now the wife. Four people gone from one family and all had a big affect on my life. Drove home really wondering what this life thing is about, the why of it all.

Cabinetmaking and Carpentry are two different trades or they were. I know a stellar carpenter. 5 Mil home no problem. Put him in a cabinet shop and there is nothing he could make furniture wise id want.

Now maybe in Europe and im not up on it they meld the two more bringing carpenters into a shop with machines as part of their teaching.

[Mike Soaper]

"It takes years to become a competent woodworker, not just some knob who makes things from pallets for clicks. No one wants to commit to learning anything in a long term situation anymore in our short attention span society."

A woodworker\housewright once told me that back in the day when they were young those starting out in their shop spent the first year learning how to sharpen before they could even cut a piece of wood edit: for a project.