Is there a company other than Hock /Lee Valley supplying O1 plane blades as replacement for LN bench planes, that are closer to the original thickness.
[OP]
Contributor
Is there a company other than Hock /Lee Valley supplying O1 plane blades as replacement for LN bench planes, that are closer to the original thickness.
Member
No help, here. I did not find any. I ended up making my own. I understand why LN uses A2-their blades are beautifully machined, polished, and flat, but I have tailored my sharpening around the stones that I like to use, and A2 just doesn't work well on them. I have noticed the A2 micro-chipping, too.
I like O1 best of the modern offerings.
Contributor
Same. I didn't find any either. But I do occasionally see New Old Stock of plane blades on eBay, and from some of the Fine tool dealers from time to time. That's where I got a replacement iron for a No. 5, when I needed one.
DC
Member
While it's not specifically what you asked for, most of the quality older plane irons were made of low alloy, water hardening tool steel along the lines of W1. The Woodcraft wood river series are the Chinese equivalent of W1. I've had good luck with them, though I don't know if they'll drop into a Lie Nielsen without adjusting the frog. Old Stanley irons are thinner, but they were mostly some flavor of oil hardening steel after the 1950's. In the 1990's they changed to an alloy steel closer to 52100.
Contributor
Ron Hock made O1 irons for both the LN low angle block and the low angle jack, and maybe others. I bought both the former from him before he sold the company. Nicer all 'round than the A2. I'd start by calling LV; if that doesn't' get anywhere, I'd call Ron.
dp
Contributor
Originally Posted by John Erickson
John, I have Veritas blades in my LN planes. They are am little thinner (either 3/32", from the Stanley Replacement series - or 1/8", from their original BD bench planes) than the original (3/16") but that makes no difference to performance. Just move the frog to the mouth size you want.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 03-02-2024 at 11:26 PM.
[OP]
Contributor
Guys, thanks for the help.
Scott, when you say "I ended up making my own " I'm very interested how you went about this. Please give us details.
Derek, LV is our goto tool store in Canada and I thought the same regarding the Hock/LV .125" blades.
Contributor
I use an O1 Hock blade in my LN #4. It's thinner than LNs iron by enough that I had to file the slot in the chipbreaker (for the adjustment pawl) slightly wider. Since the pawl is tapered and the chipbreaker slot is designed to fit very tightly on it to reduce backlash, when you reduce the iron thickness the CB ends up a closer to the bed of the frog and therefore on a thicker part of the pawl than originally intended. The CB hangs up on the pawl and won't allow the iron to fully seat on the frog.
It's very little work to file the CB slot, but if you overdo it you will create extra backlash.
Member
Hi John,
I do have some specialized equipment that is helpful in making tool blades, and its a rabbit hole that I dove down into a few years ago. The tools that I have that are handy are a vertical mill, a belt grinder, and a heat treat oven (mine is an old lab oven that I updated with an inexpensive PID). O1 is pretty forgiving though, and tool blades can certainly be made with a hacksaw, files, and a very simple forge. I have followed David Weaver’s adventures in heat treating and he seems to get really good results with very modest tools.
In my experience, O1 does benefit from a well controlled heat treat. Holding the steel at 1475 for 20 minutes seems to give better results than just taking it to critical for a moment before quenching. I tempered this last batch at between 325 and 350 and am very pleased with the results. The blades have a very crisp feeling on the oil stones that I like and I can get them as sharp as any of the steel in the shop.
There are a bunch of great resources for blade making available on the web. My favorites are: knifesteelnerds, David Weaver’s blog, and the various knife making forums around the net. Ron Hock also has a good tutorial on heat treating O1. I don’t think his website is still up (I could be wrong on this), but I think some of his blog posts are archived on various servers.
I think, overall, that I like LNs 1/8” blades more than the thinner Stanleys that I have a bunch of. They both have their up sides. The 1/8” blades, when hollow ground, are very easy to reference when free handing, which is cool. They also have a robust heft. The old Stanley blades that I have are almost universally good blades, though, and work well with oil stones.
Here is pic of the recent batch. They aren't pretty, but they work better for me than the ones that came with the planes. I don’t have any LN bench planes-mine are all early to mid 19th century, but I would likely buy a bronze #4 if I found one. I am certain its a beautiful tool…but I’ll replace the blade with O1, or other carbon steel.
Scott
IMG_8635.jpgIMG_8473.jpg
Contributor
I have some irons by Millers Falls, usually in one of these..
Millers Falls No. 9, black frog .JPG
And they are usually solid tool steel, and you can feel that they are thicker than Stanley's irons...
Plane? A No. 9, Type 4...the last of the "Good" models....
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
Member
Lie-Nielsen made O-1 steel plane blades and chisels for a short time. I know because I have several of them. Why they quit making them is a question you could ask at one of their "hand-tool experience" events, which they have recently resumed. I went to the one held at Lost Art Press a couple of weeks ago. Does Ron Hock make blades that fit L-N?
Member
My understanding is that A2 can be more manufactured with less defect than the shallower hardening steels. Most notably with regard to changing shape in the quenching process. If a blade changes shape during the quench, it triggers a process of flattening the back of the blade which takes a lot of work.
Contributor
They are not quite a drop-in replacement. See my post above. Because they are 1/32" thinner than the LN blade, you have to modify the chipbreaker (very slightly) or the iron won't seat fully onto the frog. But if you can do that, they work great.
Contributor
Hello Scott, do you have a store front by chance or have an interest in making O1 for LN available to purchase?
Contributor
I do have a couple of PM-V11 blades in my plane stash but mostly I have Hock 01 blades. My planes are Keen Kutter K series planes which are Bedrock round sides with casting numbers changed. I grind the primary bevel at 22 degrees and then hone a 25 degree bevel on the blade. Yes I know that a 25 degree is for soft wood and a 30 is for hardwood. But a 25 is sharper and the 01 is easy to sharpen and it holds a cutting edge longer than plain high carbon steed I have sharpened up to 4 time in a day. Without getting in to Physics. One can have the side adjacent of 1/8 inch and at the same angle the side adjacent of another at.030. each will have the same strength at the .030 spot.
Anyway. with a 22 degree angle I have a little more clearance where the blade meats the sole of the plane so I have never had to make adjustments to the body of the plane. I also use aftermarket chip breakers. The only reason not to is I would maybe wish the yoke was a little taller for a little better engagement
I thought a selling point of a thicker blade was less shatter. I haven't had a problem with the Hick blade thickness.
I have stated why I like the Hock blades the thickness that they are. Why do you want a thinner one?
Tom
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