Laguna LT24 table is 'loose'

[Nick Crivello]

I picked up a 2015 Laguna LT24x24 bandsaw a few weeks back. During the process of moving it, I found that that table was loose. One of the trunnion bolts was tightened up which help a bit. Couldn't access the rear one with the table on, so today I took it all apart and tightened the rear one. It's still a little bit loose. All four bolts holding the table to the trunnion are tight, as are the two holding it to the frame. What I found is that there is play around the "pin" that keeps the top of the trunnion aligned with the bottom half.

When I lift on the corners of the table, I can see it shifting at the pin location. Should I worry about this? I don't think it will affect normal operations but can't imagine that it's supposed to be that way. The pin or the hole may be worn, or the track in the trunnion could be the culprit.

The 'Pin' is the torx headed guy in this picture: bandsaw pin.jpg

[Tom Trees]

I can't see your pic due to the paywall, so you'll unfortunately have to deal with my speculation.

First off, regarding the... "during the process of moving it"
There is much mention of placement of lifting strap on the shorter models of many Italian saws, somewhere in-between the column and the tension screw
even on some of the more sloped style chassis IIRC, and worth noting the eye bolt on top too.

What I'm getting at is, if the machine has been lifted by the table, it could have bent the base plate for the lower trunnion segment.
That would be fairly evident


That said, the threaded boss/raised stub thingymebob, was snapped off on machine, though the plate underneath was still sound.
The locking bolt cannot be trustworthy enough on it's own, since there's only a thread or two left.
There was a g clamp holding the table on beforehand, which I made a quick fix for, having got a bit of a freight disassembling said g clamp.
Certainly a lot heavier than the cheap new machine I had prior.

The first irritation was just to make it safe, and I noted the same.
Trunnion 2.jpg
I took a nod from Centauro, and made a plate for mine since having the same issue with things, (I'll explain that down below)
might revisit this as I didn't have steel nor an angle grinder at the time.


That block above doesn't allow much clearance in regards to the non-CE orientation of the lower trunnion segment, i.e more tilt with the switcharoo.
so not readily adjustable without faffery, which I might get around to sorting properly sometime.

(not sure if Laguna specs from ACM, might be differing for CE regs in USA, Laguna UK seems to be a different company, not offering any Italian saws)

For interests sake, I've seen both the compact trunnion like mine, and the larger single bolt trunnion design able to tilt to 45 degrees, (originally specced that is)and documented
some info on Mreza's thread, which is the only evidence of such a feature on google images I found left.
SAM_7189.jpg

Have you looked at Sam Blasco's fairly recent Formula 640 video?
Should it be the same single bolt trunnion, then it might feature something like a bushing what's possibly missing from your saw.

These machines if very much like the Star or SNAC, IMO are a lot better thought out than many give credit for,
and there is likely a clever add on optional component in theory, that didn't make the cut, when the accountants got involved.

Not stuff needed when off the shelf, kinda thing, but for waaay down the road, to help someone having to bodge something old and abused.
I think I've explained my position on the Italian's being the good guys enough already,
just to say good is good, and better is better (if need be), and such a machine will likely be a whole lot more user friendly to add these little nicety's to,
without having to go to measures in which one can't go back from.

Edit: to explain a possible fix, I've not explained, (should Sam's video not feature some sort of bushing between segment locking bolt)
Both segments are quite snug on my machine, and wasn't the reason I experienced some movement of my table.
I had some trouble with the tires at some point, and elongated the holes on the upper segment, which was a numpty move.
Had I had everything sound like now, I could have found that out.
If I were to happen across another machine, and experienced that again,
I could find some copper pipe or whatever, to make some bushings in-between all or some of the bolts and upper trunnion segment.



All the best with the new saw. what a laugh that would be to try and tip, lol.

Tom

[Kevin Jenness]

You call that a trunnion?

You might consider replacing the "pin" with a bolt and bushing. A tightly machined bushing might take out enough of the play, or you could tighten both bolts to lock the table down. Basically that is a cheesy design.

[Nick Crivello]

You call that a trunnion?

You might consider replacing the "pin" with a bolt and bushing. A tightly machined bushing might take out enough of the play, or you could tighten both bolts to lock the table down. Basically that is a cheesy design.

I have to claim ignorance as I haven’t looked at many trunnion’s, don’t know what a good one looks like. Do know that ACM made this one.

I like the idea of replacing it with a bolt. I don’t have ready access to a lathe to make a bushing for it. Don’t foresee tilting the table much, if at all. That should at least allow me to lock it down though.

[Nick Crivello]

Added some fender washers to the pin; reduced the amount of play markedly. I'm unable to apply much torque to the small torx head however.

The pin is a hair under 12mm in diameter. I may try an oversized 12mm pin if it presents itself as a problem going forward.

[Cameron Wood]

Shouldn't any play at that pin stop when the handle/nut is tightened?

[Nick Crivello]

Shouldn't any play at that pin stop when the handle/nut is tightened?

You would think so. The track in the trunnion is right about 12.25mm, whereas the pin is about 11.95mm.

[Earl McLain]

Shouldn't any play at that pin stop when the handle/nut is tightened?

I agree with that--doesn't seem like that guide pin should have any impact on the tightening of the table.

Makes me wonder if the problem isn't with the tightening ratchet handle instead of the guide pin. Looks like there may be some adjustment in the ratchet handle--try loosening the ratchet handle (quarter turn or so), then tighten the slotted screw that goes through the middle of it--may not take a bunch, hard to say. I'd have never considered, but that's how the tightening adjustment is made on the ratcheting handle that Shark Guard uses works, and i just installed one on my new (1988) PM66.

Worth a try.

[Tom Trees]

For those who's browser doesn't like the Laguna website, the said machine can be seen on the 360 machinery site.
Seems to have a narrower footprint to me, so definitely worth checking the mounting bolts of the lower segment wern't torqued too tightly.
Two larger thicker shop made washers might be a good idea there.
How does it sit on the plate it's bolted to, i.e does it "hinge" on the ends, or spin about like a propeller?
If nothing else, the stub of a pencil to strike a line to see if it indeed moves.
Screenshot-2024-3-5 Laguna LT24x24 Industrial Bandsaw » 360 Degree Machinery LLC.jpg

[Kevin Jenness]

Shouldn't any play at that pin stop when the handle/nut is tightened?

Solidly locking down a big table like that with a short lever on one bolt is asking a lot. The guide pin is only a few inches away from the locking bolt so its loose fit in the slot and the limited torque on the lock seem to be inadequate to the task. A hex-head bolt and a long wrench for leverage might do the job.

My old Crescent 36 has a "proper" trunnion with a machined cast iron tongue and groove quadrant at least 5" wide and a 6" or so handle on the lock, well distanced from the trunnion pivot point. No play on that old beast with a table probably 36" square. My present MiniMax 16 has a 1/4" plate with a pivot and a locking bolt about 5" apart with a 6" tommy bar on the lock, crude but effective. I used to operate a 20" Italian saw with a saddle like the one in Tom's second photo above. It slopped around when loose like a rodeo clown but it did lock solidly.DSC_1541.jpg