Question on Double Square tool quality

[mark ahlenius]

Hi,

I was trying to purchase a descent Double square and I seem to be having some issues with tool quality. I have gotten 2 Lee Valley units and when I push adjustable square cleanly to either end and tighten knurled knob and then test the square against my other squares, they are not showing a clean 90 degrees. I returned the Lee Valley square and then purchased a Starrett 13A Double Square (which was about twice the price of the Lee Valley squares) and the same issue happened.

I compared the Double square against my Starrett combo square, a fixed engineering square and both of my Woodpecker fixed squares - and all are off by ~1/32nd of an inch. So I've returned the Starrett now.

When I compare my other squares against one another they are fine - no gaps.

Is not possible to get an accurate Double square? Perhaps I am not being realistic in my expectations. I've attached a few pictures of the comparisons.

thanks for your advice

'mark


IMG_7080.jpgIMG_7075.jpgIMG_7076.jpg

[Bill Dufour]

unexceptable. I am surprised a Starret left the factory that far off. Mitutoyo. or old lufkin, brown and sharpe, Fowler, Scherr Tumico probably others i am forgetting.
BilL D

[Doug Garson]

From the last 2 pictures it looks like the squares are adjustable, if so, why not adjust to square and if it holds keep the square? I agree, they should be square from the factory, but in the end if they can be adjusted to square and hold it, isn't that all that matters?

EDIT, my goof, I was looking at the screws on the Woodpecker square, forget my post.

[andrew whicker]

unexceptable. I am surprised a Starret left the factory that far off. Mitutoyo. or old lufkin, brown and sharpe, Fowler, Scherr Tumico probably others i am forgetting.
BilL D

Was Brown and Sharpe a good mfger? I bought an old BS indicator off eBay it was NOT a well made indicator. Made me question my own thought that Brown and Sharpe was a good brand.

[Jack Frederick]

Starret has just been bought out. Hope they stay in Orange.

[Derek Cohen]

Mark, for all you know the Woodpecker may be faulty. The ONLY true way to check a square is the flip-and-mark method.

Having said this, the three Starretts I have are all square: 4", 6" and 12" ....




The absolutely BEST squares assured for accuracy are made by Chris Vesper. They are essentially machinist squares. I have a 4" and 7" ....




Failing these, Chris Wong's Magic Square is the go ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dB0MBG...nnel=ChrisWong

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mike stenson]

Yes, never compare a square against a square. Well, if you want accuracy.

[Cameron Wood]

Oh come on, I'll bet you've done it plenty.

[mark ahlenius]

yeah agreed, was doing a quick and dirty test. When all of my existing squared lined up perfectly to one another and the new Double Starrett did not, then I got suspicious and just returned it. But agreed that your test would be much more accurrate

thanks

'mark

[Brian Runau]

Mark, for all you know the Woodpecker may be faulty. The ONLY true way to check a square is the flip-and-mark method.

Having said this, the three Starretts I have are all square: 4", 6" and 12" ....




The absolutely BEST squares assured for accuracy are made by Chris Vesper. They are essentially machinist squares. I have a 4" and 7" ....




Failing these, Chris Wong's Magic Square is the go ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dB0MBG...nnel=ChrisWong

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ok, I feel less than looking at how you store your squares. Nice. Brian

[mark ahlenius]

Yes I thought about that, but then I compared the Starrett and the other 2 Lee Valley Double squares to 2 of the fixed Woodpeckers I own, and also to an no-name engineering square and and adjustable (combo) 6" Starrett square. The new Double squares were always off as shown in my pictures. So its a little bit unlikely that all 4 of my other squares are off (not impossible). So then I compared each of my existing squares to one another and they were all right on the money.

I will try to next Double square that I buy with the flip method - I'd see that before but just did not try it. Woodpecker makes a Double 4" square but having a hard time spending ~$170 for that one.

thanks

'mark

'mark

[mark ahlenius]

Hey Derek

wondering how old your Starrett’s are? I heard from another ww that Starrett’s quality has really gone down. I have a Starrett 6” combo square from maybe 8 years ago and while it still shows pretty square (paper flip test method), the locking nut never works that well. It’s my fault, I should have returned it years ago, but thought it was perhaps just breaking in the threads. Still has the problem today.

What pains me is that all the Double squares I’ve just returned over the past few weeks were all made in the USA. Someone is sleeping at the wheel imho. Also i just tested the flip method on all my existing squares and they appear to be spot on. THanks

A

’mark

[Derek Cohen]

Mark, the 4" is fairly new, about 12 months. The only downside to is is that the blade is Imperial. I cannot find a Metric version. The 6" is Metric and about 5 or 6 years old. The 12" has a few blades, currently sporting a Metric, and about 20 years old (I have two of them).

Mine have always been accurate. Know that all combination and double square blades can be tuned for accuracy. There are tiny metal tabs inside the head which can be filed (very slightly, very carefully, one stroke at a time) to achieve the accuracy desired. Here is a video (first one I found, but decent) ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[mark ahlenius]

Thanks Derek, that would be acceptable for a square that I've owned for sometime, but to me, its not acceptable that I'd have to "tune" a brand new unit.
Perhaps i should look for a used double square on ebay and adjust from there...

best

'mark

[Mel Fulks]

I guess everyone knows new framing squares are much worse. Bought a framing square to use on first job . Tested it at home and saw
it was off. Told an older guy on job that the square was off ! He said “ they are all off ,you gotta file them, and flip over and file.
I never turn down an old ,cheap framing square, Some are crazy heavy!