Best Shaper Under $5000?

[Bill Dufour]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

What is this machine?
Bill D
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17123391831...Bk9SR5DK8-XNYw

[Warren Lake]

thats a good price to run a VFD and solve three phase. Not sure if you need a locking nut or washer if you are using that braking. i wouldnt say you need a feeder for 7.5 HP any HP can whack you. I have feeders and dont always use them. I like hand feeding. What matters is if your set up and how safe it is or not. Id like to have tilt but dont. There are ways around it depending on the cut.

[John Pendery]

Josh, I would encourage you to look into vfd’s and phase converters especially if you plan to buy more or replace machines in the future. Three phase machines open up a different world of quality and (if patient) bang for your buck.

That shaper Larry posted is a great example. Nice heavy machine with a great power feeder. I’m also a big fan of Ed. He’s a extremely trustworthy guy that sells clean machines priced fairly.

I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

Sorry if this has gone off on a three phase tangent, Josh!

[Josh Baldwin]

How many amps does your shop have ? Can it handle a 7.5 Hp single phase motor startup with the DC and AC on.
Bill D

Hey Bill thanks for all the info. So it was my understanding that I would need a phase converter to go to 3 phase and it would be something like $2k per machine for a good one. I'm not sure I need anything more than 5hp to be honest. I'm a 1 man custom furniture maker and I just can't see 5hp not being enough power to do what I need to do, but maybe I'm wrong. I just know my current 4hp jointer/planer and 4hp felder saw cut everything effortlessly. I was thinking of jumping to 5hp separate jointer/planers in the near future, but again I just can't imagine needing more power than that. I wired my shop myself, so I can run whatever amperage is necessary.

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, I’m in Richmond ,now retired . There used to be a place that sold used machines. Don’t if there is one now. All the shops bought
used stuff when I was working.

Hey Mel I'll look around for a used shop, but I'm not sure of one off the top of my head. Thanks

[Josh Baldwin]

I have had one w a tilting head for 9 months or so. I haven't used the tilting head yet but I would have used the sliding bed if it had one for stiles.

So I would put that higher on the list. But then again I can always buy an aftermarket solution for the sliding bed but I can't add a tilting head later.

Also a shaper without a power feeder wouldn't be using it to its full potential.

I'm not a shaper expert yet. Just made cab doors, locking miter joints, a template setup, and some shiplap so far. But the power feed is key even with manual feed tooling.

Hey Andrew thanks for the info. Yea the sliding bed definitely appeals to me and I would definitely get a power feeder. Looks like the Hammer unit with slider and power feeder would be about $5500, so not crazy expensive, but definitely pushing the budget. I currently use a coping sled on the router table and it's ok, but nowhere near as nice as a slider.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have the Laguna Pro 5hp. I had a Grizzly 1026 before. I believe a shaper lives and dies by the fence. I love the fence on the Laguna and hated the one on the Grizzly. The Oliver fence looks similar to the Laguna. The Hammer has a tilting spindle but I don't know how much I would use that. If you have any specific questions on the Laguna let me know.

Hey Cary do you ever feel like the 5hp isn't enough power? To me it seems like it would be more than enough, but just wondering your thoughts on it.

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, I would encourage you to look into vfd’s and phase converters especially if you plan to buy more or replace machines in the future. Three phase machines open up a different world of quality and (if patient) bang for your buck.

That shaper Larry posted is a great example. Nice heavy machine with a great power feeder. I’m also a big fan of Ed. He’s a extremely trustworthy guy that sells clean machines priced fairly.

I’ve had my eye on that Unitronics sliding table shaper on woodweb. Looks almost like a copy of a Martin T23. I don’t know much about them besides a little reading online, but that might also be a good value machine.

Sorry if this has gone off on a three phase tangent, Josh!

Ha Hey John yea I tend to get the 3 phase comments a lot when asking about machines. I'm open to it, but it just seems like a hell of an expense for more power that I'm just not sure does me much good. When I priced it out it was about $2k per machine if I was looking at it correctly. I'm open to used machines, but to be honest some of the older ones that are hard to find information on and the companies aren't easy to contact or get help from if there are problems do worry me. I'm not an engineer and I absolutely hate tinkering with machines and calibrating them. So for me unless it's in amazing condition it's hard to want to go used just to save a few grand if it leads to lots of time wasted. I know for some guys they really enjoying that part of the process, but I suck at it. All of that is to say that I wouldn't rule it out, but if for the same price or just a grand more I can get a 5hp single phase that isn't as beefy but certainly does what I need it to do then I would probably go with a new one.

[Bill Dufour]

Right now on ebay a no name 10hp VFD is under $200. That should run a 5hp motor fine if it is really rated for single phase input. You will need one for each machine. In theory you can switch between multiple machines if they are all using the same HP motors.
A single rotary converter can be used to supply all the three phase stuff in your shop. On ebay today a new American Rotary 10 hp is 1,200 delivered. A 20hp is under 2,000. It is recommended that a rotary be double the HP of the largest HP motor to get things started. A work around is to start some lower horsepower motors and let them run before turning on the too large motor. Jointer, duct collector, disk sander all work well as extra idler motors.
A FVD output can not be switched. All switching must be done VFD off or using the low voltage wiring from the vfd. This means any machine switches can not be used or they must be rewired to control just the VFD. Rotary use any switch any way you want.
Bill D

[John Pendery]

Ha Hey John yea I tend to get the 3 phase comments a lot when asking about machines. I'm open to it, but it just seems like a hell of an expense for more power that I'm just not sure does me much good. When I priced it out it was about $2k per machine if I was looking at it correctly. I'm open to used machines, but to be honest some of the older ones that are hard to find information on and the companies aren't easy to contact or get help from if there are problems do worry me. I'm not an engineer and I absolutely hate tinkering with machines and calibrating them. So for me unless it's in amazing condition it's hard to want to go used just to save a few grand if it leads to lots of time wasted. I know for some guys they really enjoying that part of the process, but I suck at it. All of that is to say that I wouldn't rule it out, but if for the same price or just a grand more I can get a 5hp single phase that isn't as beefy but certainly does what I need it to do then I would probably go with a new one.

Josh, those are very fair points and good to know where you want to spend your time. $2k per machine is way high though. Bill is correct in his reply. Rotary phase converters (or phase perfect for a bit more) are whole shop solutions where you do some simple wiring from single phase panel to the converter and then to a three phase panel that can power multiple machines. VFD’s are good solutions for individual machines and cost a couple hundred bucks. A very hands off option for VFD’s is offered by Jack Forsberg. Might be worth shooting him an email if you want to check into it. Nothing wrong with wanting to stick to single phase new machines, but I’d at least look into all options.

[Jared Sankovich]

Look for used euro like the SAC on woodweb Larry posted. You can't have too heavy or too many hp on a shaper. Tilt is nice, sliding tables are ok. I've stalled 6hp, but not 9hp.

As a point of reference I didn't spend 4k total for the 3 shapers I have (all are 3ph) with feeders, and under 5k with vfds included.

[Curt Harms]

There may be another advantage to 3 phase if you hate working on machines. When you hear about troubles with single phase electric motors there are often 2 culprits; capacitors and centrifugal switches. 3 phase motors have neither. On startup the surge should be less with 3 phase so easier on the building's electrical system. VFDs can be programmed for rate of acceleration, I think the one I bought defaulted to 10 seconds. At that rate there would be hardly any start surge.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks nice but it is 3phase and 400 miles away from OP.

Can run on 1ph with a rotary phase converter.

[Aaron Inami]

Be aware that when using a VFD on a machine, you cannot have any complicated circuits or DC motors in the machine. A VFD is designed to be connected direclty to a motor. I would investigate taht SAC T145 shaper to see what kind of internal circuits it uses. It does have manual raise/lower/tilt adjustments, but there are additional controls on the front. If your electrically creative, you can probably wire in a VFD between the machine control circuits and the motor.