Are your tools dangerous?

[Warren Lake]

Originally most of the people in the trade had equipment that was unaffordable to consumers, likely little cheap consumer equipment way back like now. The people in the trade got training and had a chance to hang on to digits. The people who bought from big box when that arrived had not teaching. Someone taught me how not to get whacked so it was up to me if I listened to what I was originally taught over the years.

Big box and other dont teach you. I bet more of you have been whacked and are missing digits proportionally than people that had teaching. You have limited time compared on the machines, no deadlines and no pressure, no material suppliers letting you down and all that goes with being self employed in a hard way to make a living. Non of the pressures but more of you have lost fingers proportionally. I dont know for sure no statistics. But logic says its so. Enough content creators have not made it any better as some amount dont know they dont know. Even some of them id think would. There are many bad examples out there and id be one of them but at least I know when im doing something wrong. Enough of them dont.

Tom thanks but I dont need all that stuff but will look at what it is later. The riving knife post I just looked at it as a ton of work to make that riving knife go up and down and thought great machining but why you just need a riving knife it does not have to have a linear guide, not to raise it up and down.

[Edward Weber]

This is a false equivalency, and sorry, but, kind of nonsense. Saying the object, not in use, is not dangerous is silly. Driving a car is inherently dangerous, and cars are meant to be driven. Using a table saw is inherently dangerous, and a table saw that isn't cutting things is just a table. Acknowledging that things are inherently dangerous just means that one has to always be aware and be careful. Is a RAS inherently dangerous? Of course. Can you do things to minimize those risks? Yes, but some risks remain.

"Dangerous: adjective. Able or likely to cause physical injury." (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/dangerous)

Just for the fun of it, I asked about 5 or 6 AI chatbots to answer the same question.
Are tools inherently dangerous?
Here is one answer but they all are essentially the same.

Tools themselves are not inherently dangerous, as they are merely objects designed to perform specific tasks. However, the way in which tools are used by individuals can pose a danger if not used correctly or with proper care. It is important for individuals to receive proper training and follow safety guidelines when using tools to minimize the risk of accidents or injuries.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes Edward, tools can be dangerous, and yes the list was a bit odd in my opinion.

If you consider most tools dangerous then you'll take risks to mitigate those dangers, so it's a good practise to consider tools dangerous.

Some tools are very dangerous, some such as a rubber spatula not so much.

Regards, Rod.

[Edward Weber]

When someone asks me if a tools is dangerous my typical initial reaction is to ask, who's using it?
It all comes down to humans and how we interact with everything.
JMHO

[Michael Burnside]

This thread is therefore nonsensical if we're not discussing a tool when used. Good grief.

[mike stenson]

This thread is therefore nonsensical if we're not discussing a tool when used. Good grief.

it's a ridiculous standard of definition. Unless, that is, you're a tool collector.

[James Jayko]

Just for the fun of it, I asked about 5 or 6 AI chatbots to answer the same question.
Are tools inherently dangerous?
Here is one answer but they all are essentially the same.

Tools themselves are not inherently dangerous, as they are merely objects designed to perform specific tasks. However, the way in which tools are used by individuals can pose a danger if not used correctly or with proper care. It is important for individuals to receive proper training and follow safety guidelines when using tools to minimize the risk of accidents or injuries.

Well, I had AI do my NCAA bracket and I was eliminated on day 1, so...take with a grain of salt?

[Edward Weber]

This thread is therefore nonsensical if we're not discussing a tool when used. Good grief.

Putting your rather declarative statement aside,
With respect, I feel you still fail to see that this is a point of view thread, not a carved in stone definition type of thread.
The entire point is that we humans (woodworkers) determine whether or not a tool is "dangerous" in how we use them.
What one person views as dangerous others do not.

Feel free to start a discussion about tools in use, it will still be human interaction that dictates to what extent there is a danger.

[Carl Beckett]

I did a search on youtube for dangerous tools.

Indeed I found many, especially some in third world countries, that "I" deem to be dangerous tools. Frighteningly so.

[Edward Weber]

Here's a blast from the past
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....rous-Tool-poll

[Patty Hann]

Not seen that before but makes me think of Siegfried from Kaos, I can hear him reading it. .

Oh yes... had to stop and think for a few seconds... Get Smart

[Warren Lake]

yes cone of silence, Hemmie the robot AI with a heart. I said the military consulted with them but think it might have been James Bond, one of them anyway.

Think the first show Max drove a Ferrari. And 99. Okay ill be quiet now.

[Aaron Inami]

That popular mechanics article feels like it's targeted to general consumers (not necessarily woodworkers and DIY enthusiasts). Though, there is one tool I have seen that seems stupidly dangerous (or dangerously stupid, lol):

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-1...isc-58013.html

What do you guys think?

[Warren Lake]

Hey Tom

took a look at a bit and will take a look at more. Its lots of homework there for a guy on a saw for a lifetime with no riving knife or anything. Do have a saw with a riving knife now and I like it. Feels like cheating but its a good thing. 9 Hp will kick if it wants to but so far its been very well behaved.

I once saw a british guy red lab coat and two long push sticks. He had little control of the material. At first I thought it was a joke.

This saw came with an aluminum riving knife which I find interesting then same time its less likely to stay flat like making them from a saw blade. I have a fair number of large blades that can be turned into riving knives. that thing you posted the riving knife looked too close the blade as well. Better aluminum that steel but it doesnt need to be stuck up against the blade. It will still do its job sitting back some amount.

[Tom Trees]

8mm according to HSE in Europe, and certainly not aluminium.
The standards used to suggest further, as per Roy Sutton's old video, but things have changed since.
Some stuff in the video (it's on YT) might be quite surprising to some, i.e Shaw guards for trench cuts, movable fence for ripping solid timbers, (dependant on blade height,)
crown guard being also required, and a pair of 450mm long push sticks minimum.
Jack Forsberg has some other useful videos on the matter, on his very old Wadkin saw.

I guess the Unisaw and the likes were first designed for some use during the war effort, or some reason like that?
Saying this, there has been some UK produced dodgy machines in-between the Wadkin or Robinson saws, and my old Startrite, or newer old Wadkins from around the same era...
like the older Multico's which have tilting tables instead!
so perhaps just took some ironing out to simplify things.
Could it be, there might have been some patients involved, stopping ye from getting the same?
I've not stumbled across any concrete answers to that, though I've not really looked either.
It would be interesting to know why.

Tom

Screenshot-2024-3-9 Safe Wood Machining by Roy Sutton.jpg