Are your tools dangerous?

[Michael Burnside]

If a tool isn't inherently dangerous to operate, no training is required to use one without injury. I don't go off saying that scuba diving isn't dangerous because I'm trained to do so. Because I'm trained to do so I KNOW it's dangerous. I wear safety equipment when downhill mountain biking, or when climbing, etc. Why? Because they're inherently dangerous activities.

I don't understand the whole point of trying to whitewash an activity as 'completely safe'. Unless you're not using the equipment. Then sure, it's "safe".

Exactly, Mike. I don't quite understand the 'inanimate' argument either. I mean yea a bike or table saw isn't dangerous until you use it, but "dangerous", to me, means what can happen to me when using it...I mean what else is there? I never thought about my DH rig being dangerous sitting in the garage, but I'm not all geared up for nothing because I don't think the act of using it isn't LOL. That categorized mindset will get you hurt, even if you're an "expert". Which, by the way, I raced super-D and cyclocross for 10 years as Cat II/III and this "expert" ate plenty of dirt.

[Edward Weber]

If a tool isn't inherently dangerous to operate, no training is required to use one without injury. I don't go off saying that scuba diving isn't dangerous because I'm trained to do so. Because I'm trained to do so I KNOW it's dangerous. I wear safety equipment when downhill mountain biking, or when climbing, etc. Why? Because they're inherently dangerous activities.

I don't understand the whole point of trying to whitewash an activity as 'completely safe'. Unless you're not using the equipment. Then sure, it's "safe".

I know some of you will pick apart every word no matter what I say but I'll say it anyway.
ANYTHING can be considered dangerous if used improperly, I think we've at least established that. A pillow can be dangerous if used improperly, yet most of us sleep with one.
People are what make tools dangerous, for innumerable reasons.
"If a tool isn't inherently dangerous to operate, no training is required to use one without injury."
Interesting view, Does everyone who buys/uses tools get training or is everyone with a tool in imitate danger of somehow injuring themselves?

My point is that I do not consciously think, "now I'm going to use the tablesaw, possibly the most dangerous tool in the shop" That's ludicrous. For me tools are useful and to be respected, not feared. Use them as they're designed to be used and follow any and all safety precautions applicable to you. If you do that, most all perceived potential "dangers" can be easily avoided. Everyone should be aware of what could happen when using tools, the more you know the better off you are,
While I don't dismiss any dangers that could happen, I don't dwell on it.
I also don't think I ever said "completely safe" that's just false. I'm also not whitewashing anything, it's just my personal viewpoint.
I'm not trying to label the machine one way or another, I'm talking about a frame of mind.

[James Jayko]

My buddy's dad is a microsurgeon, reattaching fingers and stuff. He said table saws put his kids through college. So not NOT dangerous...

[Michael Burnside]

I know some of you will pick apart every word no matter what I say but I'll say it anyway.
ANYTHING can be considered dangerous if used improperly, I think we've at least established that. A pillow can be dangerous if used improperly, yet most of us sleep with one.
People are what make tools dangerous, for innumerable reasons.
"If a tool isn't inherently dangerous to operate, no training is required to use one without injury."
Interesting view, Does everyone who buys/uses tools get training or is everyone with a tool in imitate danger of somehow injuring themselves?

My point is that I do not consciously think, "now I'm going to use the tablesaw, possibly the most dangerous tool in the shop" That's ludicrous. For me tools are useful and to be respected, not feared. Use them as they're designed to be used and follow any and all safety precautions applicable to you. If you do that, most all perceived potential "dangers" can be easily avoided. Everyone should be aware of what could happen when using tools, the more you know the better off you are,
While I don't dismiss any dangers that could happen, I don't dwell on it.
I also don't think I ever said "completely safe" that's just false. I'm also not whitewashing anything, it's just my personal viewpoint.
I'm not trying to label the machine one way or another, I'm talking about a frame of mind.

No disrespect Edward, but there is a lot of "fluff" in here that while I agree in principal with some of it, your original post was "Are your tools dangerous?" The simple answer is yes. If you don't like that answer and continue to post and force others to defend their reasoning be prepared to have those replies picked apart as is the nature of forums.

[Edward Weber]

No disrespect Edward, but there is a lot of "fluff" in here that while I agree in principal with some of it, your original post was "Are your tools dangerous?" The simple answer is yes. If you don't like that answer and continue to post and force others to defend their reasoning be prepared to have those replies picked apart as is the nature of forums.

""Are your tools dangerous?" The simple answer is yes. If you don't like that answer and continue to post and force others to defend their reasoning be prepared to have those replies picked apart as is the nature of forums. "

Now who's "forcing" their opinion?

Telling me my opinion or viewpoint is wrong and letting me know that if I continue to have this stance I will be picked apart by those who disagree.

I really don't believe anyone was forced to do anything, you are not obligated to reply.
When the original meaning of my post gets skewed out of recognition, I will defend it.
If yuo don't understand the original context, you can simply ask.
To you they're dangerous, to me they're not.
Different ways of looking at things, that's all.

[Tom Bussey]

There is not one tool in the world that is dangerous. Also how many die each year in car accidents. Yet nobody wants to talk about that. The care in itself is not dangerous. Or how many die from lung cancer or drug overdose? One can die from lung cancer even if they don't smoke but one can't overdose if you don't take the drug. A tool, like a care will remain inert and unmoving until acted upon by a person or thing.

The common denominator is the person. I drove to a town about 1 1/2 hours away today and came accosted 4 cars in the ditch. The only way one can get in a ditch is by loosing control of the care. I don't know for sure because I didn't stop to find out why they were they were there. My guess is they were driving to fast for the weather conditions, because the conditions were not very good today.

You can't fix stupid

[Larry Edgerton]

My Unitronix has a metal tag from the factory that says "Failure too blah, blah, blah will cause DEATH!" I love it! No generic warnings here.

[Edward Weber]

My Unitronix has a metal tag from the factory that says "Failure too blah, blah, blah will cause DEATH!" I love it! No generic warnings here.

Too funny, that reminds me of the stickers you often see
il_1588xN.3270373542_pnom.jpg
So, as long as you don't touch, you're good.

[Tom Trees]

Most older tablesaws I've seen in the USA certainly are very dangerous... compared to the the much older and heavier duty saws, or indeed the regular stuff in Europe.
That is unless, one calls not retrofitting a true riving knife like below "user error"
+ everything else necessary, that's the only way I could see such a machine as not being treacherous.

Money to be made here for someone, perhaps the inventor sells'em already, and no worries about getting a patient nicked from overseas, seeing as useful add ons aren't made for anything, which would risk losing out on selling new and shiny machines.

Sean Lennon's riving knife is a great example for the thread in regards to the old iron, Imagine all the people...
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one!

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?133210-Delta-34-350-12-14-quot-riving-knife-retrofit

[Patty Hann]

How many folks here remember this? I first saw posted in the ET shop (electronics) when I was in the Navy.

ACHTUNG!

Das machine is nicht fur gerfingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der Sprinngwerk, blowenfusen und
poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das Dummkopfen.
Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das Pockets, relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights...

[Warren Lake]

Not seen that before but makes me think of Siegfried from Kaos, I can hear him reading it.

I looked at the adjustable riving knife. Im not getting it. I see what is done just looking quickly. This last saw I bought had an aluminum riving knife, crudely made and not close but its irrelevant, it will do the job even as it is. David Kumm was the first person I heard talk about making riving knives out of old saw blades. Thats a great idea.

Tom Am radio said yesterday that 80 percent are smokers, so 20 percent prove your point. Past someone told me of a friends son having died from cannibis as there was Fentenyal in it. Sadly proving your point. Friday night drove home from the cottage show in Toronto at 8:30 in the bigfest snowfall this year. Roads not plowed they were leaving it till later. I was amazed no one was crashing. Most were going slower and leaving way more space than normal. Few cowboys blew past and sometimes they are the ones you see later and pass, them in the ditch. No one was so it was a good night. Dangerous machines but most operators paying attention.

[Tom Trees]

I had a great laugh at that Patty, it would make a great poster for the shed.

@Warren, here you go, perhaps the most simplest to explain things would be the first two links of the UK HSE
The second PDF for regarding the riving knife setup.

• https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
  Or
  https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf
  
  And some links to the old UK forum, before most folks left after the deceitful conglomerate takeover....
  which has many great threads in the archives.
  Might as well number them for folks wanting to study, in no particular order... just to drill it home for the newcomers who's likely unaware of all this,
  as ones fingers are fairly important.
  
  1
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
  2
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-again.134819/
  3
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...k-back.134376/
  4
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-angle.104772/
  5
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...n-here.145770/
  6
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1316680
  7
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...e-2#post-55548
  8
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1237571
  9
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...0/#post-464040
  10
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...le-saw.130321/
  11
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ard-on.133301/
  12
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...3/#post-398582
  13
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...op-usa.145976/
  14
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ut-them.10490/
  15
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1504540
  16
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
  17
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...sticks.124516/
  18
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1352165
  19
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...al-mod.118878/
  20
  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...blocks.107009/
  
  
  
  Good luck, and all the best.
  Tom

[Carl Beckett]

The surgeon that put the pins in my thumb after a TS kickback noted that he sold ALL his WW tools, after seeing so many injuries, especially TS accidents.

Personally I try not to fall into the trap of thinking I am so 'experienced' or 'skilled' that accidents are not possible.

[Larry Edgerton]

Personally I try not to fall into the trap of thinking I am so 'experienced' or 'skilled' that accidents are not possible.

Carl, I have a fair amount of experience and I can tell you that machines are always looking for a new and exciting ways of messing you up. I don't trust them either.

[James Jayko]

There is not one tool in the world that is dangerous. Also how many die each year in car accidents. Yet nobody wants to talk about that. The care in itself is not dangerous. Or how many die from lung cancer or drug overdose? One can die from lung cancer even if they don't smoke but one can't overdose if you don't take the drug. A tool, like a care will remain inert and unmoving until acted upon by a person or thing.

This is a false equivalency, and sorry, but, kind of nonsense. Saying the object, not in use, is not dangerous is silly. Driving a car is inherently dangerous, and cars are meant to be driven. Using a table saw is inherently dangerous, and a table saw that isn't cutting things is just a table. Acknowledging that things are inherently dangerous just means that one has to always be aware and be careful. Is a RAS inherently dangerous? Of course. Can you do things to minimize those risks? Yes, but some risks remain.

"Dangerous: adjective. Able or likely to cause physical injury." (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/dangerous)