Contributor
I'm still sitting here with a major jaw drop.Originally Posted by Jim Becker
That is absolutely horrifying.
It was incredible (providential?) that no one else was in its path, and that it hit the store wall and not the door. Just unbelievable (except that... there's the video)
"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.”
Apparently it is not rare for concrete saw blades to run away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apFzT11_h5s
Lee Schierer
USNA '71
Go Navy!
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[OP]
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I really appreciate the thoughtful reply.
I'm also "lucky" when it comes to mother nature.
In 2020, there was a grass fire that started between 1/4 and 1/2 mile from my house. Luckily the wind just happened to be blowing the other direction that day, which is unusual. The fire ended up being 700 acres, which barely makes the news. This is what I saw looking over my back fence.
IMG_6678_renamed_1949.jpg
Contributor
years ago a tornado went through and over a cottage our father built. when i went up there trees down that would have taken the cottage out but they came down parallel to it instead of on it. Other trees roots were snapped in the ground but trees still standing and leaning. The lady next door would not sleep in her cottage and her hydro line had been taken out by a tree. I cut trees up that I could on the ground and as I was there a helicopter flew over very low and reminded me of the sound of helicopters in apocalypse now. It was low and loud.
Went back with a friend and we took down 8 trees. The one that was threatening her cottage and a few for her on her property. Same as Edward we were lucky on the direction that thing travelled it saved the cottage.
Flying saw blade is wild, Ninjas would be proud, who needs Nunchuks.
Member
How about a carbide tip in the white of the eye?
Makes a whole lot of sense to use a crown guard, which one will use every time.
if they've got a suitable high/low fence extrusion, as seen in Roy's old video.
Jack Forsberg recently made a video on the matter of dangerous tablesaws, vs ones what's up to spec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJKTNqeySA
Member
Seems that the recent Sawstop thread about such tech becoming possibly mandatory in the New York Times got removed?
Seeing as the thread got few replies, I'm left supposing it was me mentioning that the Sawstop saws were unsafe,
due to not having a suitable high/low sliding fence extrusion,
and also suitable riving knife which accommodated a proper crown guard, (as per Roy's video)...
and not an add on overhead type which was rigid enough to do the same job.
Thus giving an illusion of safety, which is certainly very dangerous, especially in an educational environment.
Surely mentioning those important factors wouldn't be seen as being unreasonable,
when all I'm trying to do is be able to buy a suitable fence extrusion for my old machine, which then would bring it up to EU/UK spec,
albeit forcibly or otherwise, doesn't really matter as it's in the name of safety, and I've obviously got no skin in the game.
I can mention, I'm certainly not the only one who wants to bring my machine up to EU/UK spec.
Lots of machine users in the USA with older saws could benefit from such.
Question for ye
If I and others keep mentioning this, does anyone think someone will eventually produce something suitable?
(Regarding this for those with such ability, too many saws have such fences in the EU/UK already, and the market is small by comparison, so not likely gonna happen here.)
Cheers
Tom
Moderator
Tom, the thread got removed because people were posting in a manner not consistent with the Terms of Service for SMC. That's happened quite a few times on that subject so hopefully, this thread will not also suffer the same fate. There is no "free speech" in any forum like this and the TOS is what governs behavior.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
Good to know that, I thought it was me who was seen as being unreasonable, concerning the TOS.
Cheers Jim.
All the best
Tom
Contributor
if this was toms post last night of the british guy and Jack id not be adapting those techniques. The two push sticks and one so long you have to stand in the next room give you no control of the material.
Member
Your fingers Warren, though worth mentioning the HSE advice doesn't particularly stipulate what type/shape of stick you have to use,
just noting that 450mm long, (minimum) or longer is required.You can do what you like in your own workshop, like disregarding true riving knives, and crown guards,
but suggesting others do different to the HSE UK or EU advice is dangerous to newcomers, who likely have no clue about the numbers of incidents
in which tablesaws cause.
There's much emphasis across the pond, on not calling matters which are negligent or could have been avoided, "accidents".
All the best
Tom
Contributor
At least we drive on the right side of the road
Im half british. Not arguing with you, but I dont agree at all with two push sticks like shown. I think not having control of the material is more dangerous than having control. Im no roll model and ive said that many times but ive ripped tons of material and have some experience.
Ill take a photo of a push stick as I have no idea what I used last ones a bit longer than the original I got from the germans. There is no chance id feed material like shown as well as past the british guy in the red lab coat, its more dangerous to not have control of the material. One push stick right hand left hand on the material stop before the blade.
I constantly see guys on saws that dont have a clue. here is one I saw the other night. Ive not had a riving knife to now so that is what im used to past. One cabinet maker showed me a good trick that maybe one day ill share need to see a lawyer first about liability on you tube and if you are or not
For this cut id have two hands not in that position. A reality is distance between the blade and fence and as it gets smaller then more need for a push stick, I dont know what my number is and sure ive broken it enough times however push stick has been used tons of times. stupid plastic thing here as well.
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Last edited by Warren Lake; 04-01-2024 at 12:30 PM.
Contributor
it really is no wonder my grandfather was missing the fingers on his right hand.
~mike
happy in my mud hut
Contributor
Tom, that old UK saw in the Fosberg video is a very dangerous setup. I had seen that years ago and tried it out on my slider by putting a 20” blade in raised all the way up with the fence pulled back like in the video. No thanks for ripping like that! After that we toured some shops in the UK and they usually had one of these saws somewhere in the shop. I questioned the owners about these and they said they were very dangerous and would never let employees use them. The other fault of these saws is the lack of fence adjustment fore and aft.
The HSE are better than what we have in the US for sure but if you want better more up to date safety regs look at the German bghm safety manual.
Ripping can be done more safely on a sliding saw and for that reason you rarely see conventional table saws in mainland European shops anymore. It is possible to rip safety on a conventional saw. Here are a couple photos of ripping narrow pieces on my vintage old iron T17.
the method is right out of the bghm manual.
IMG_5532.jpg
Safer yet is ripping on the slider if you have one using F&F
IMG_8413.jpg
Contributor
Link to online bghm manual.
https://www.bghm.de/fileadmin/user_u...b_BG_96.18.pdf
Contributor
Lots of interesting ways they do stuff. As a guy on a cabinet saw for over 40 years and recently a small slider enough doesnt apply but have my own ways on stuff not having the same type of saws shown there.
One question for you they show the knife projection as 1.1 MM and is that as Tersa set up? 1.1 is .043 and way past after testing I ended up and always have set up to .050 projection which is pretty close. this wont apply to machines with knife grinders where they are up a fair bit higher figuring you will work the knives five or six times loosing approx .005 each time. It wasnt clear to me on what is lost grinding and honing and I have different thoughts on honing how its done as ive seen it past where I can hear the knife cause the heal from honing is hitting. That is why some of the manuals say not to get wider than 1/32 on honing. I get it it, they need a hone at a steeper angle then the heal wont hit
Getting back to that question. If you measure your tersa what is the difference from the head to the knife tip? I did email Tersa to ask. Past asked about their tolerance and if as stated its excellent could not ask for better just now im curious on knife projection number on tersa after scanning down through what you posted.
I see the lady using the radial and the negative rake, get it as most of us do,. Then I see the two hands on the radial one to pull it out and the other hand on the blade guard. Id skip that and do what the british guy taught us. Straight arm, its never failed me ever.
A friend from school who got a job in a top shop actually the old guy got him a job there told me once he was working on the planer and a board kicked out hit him in the stomach and bounced back into the planer and carried on. He had built in padding not hurt and started laughing.
Thanks for posting that
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