Graule ZS135 Radial Arm Saw voltage question

[Edward Weber]

video clipped at 30 seconds as the saw auto feeds towards the operator. As the past british guy taught us use a straight arm and that wont happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l2mwResyvA

The video Brian linked to, the Geaule ZS135, has a cable that pulls the saw back. Adjusted properly, the saw can not self feed. MANY Ras's have this feature, that go by different names.
Return mechanism, recoil mechanism, Automatic reversal spring, etc.

The video you linked to is a Stromab US12 RAS, it has a "Spring-operated carriage return"

If the saw is auto feeding, the return mechanism is not adjusted properly.
There is no need for the straight arm technique, unless that's what makes you comfortable.

[Warren Lake]

really ?

the one I posted has a cable and the saw took off.

If a cable could stop a saw from auto feeding then you could not pull it out. It took off cause of his technique, wrong blade maybe didnt look. Even if the right right blade it was still took off and thats why they cut the video. I saw the saw start to accelerate, I didnt have the sound on. most of the time you get a warning, sometimes not much.

I put the video on the one i posted and this time with the sound on, can hear it as well. Radials in shops ive worked in or been in didnt have cables either way the saw took off at 30 seconds showing the cable doesnt hold it back.

[Joe Calhoon]

The Graule with the horizontal handle would be difficult to operate straight arm. Not necessary's anyway. These saws have a positive feed different from other radials I’ve used. In addition to the return spring mine has hydraulic damping. I have it turned way down and would only use it if cutting a lot of rough lumber. That’s where you can get in trouble with radials. Cutting rough thick lumber if bow keeps it from being tight to the fence. These saws are very accurate for cutting well planed material. They are also used a lot for cutting aluminum.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mike, Doing some reading on this and sounds like a 380v IEC motor is wired in wye. My understanding is that the delta configuration for that runs on 220v.

I found this info on the Mike Holt forum by contributor Jraef
”In the IEC motor world, more specifically Great Britain (and Australia / New Zealand), THEY use Delta or Wye winding configurations for voltage changing. A 380/220V motor is connected with its windings in "Star" (Wye) for 380V line supply, Delta for 220V (380 / 1.732 = 220). Their system essentially rates the motor based on the Delta configuration as well, but because you are changing the applied voltage, the power remains the same. We don't do that here in the US because we don't have the same ratios of voltage supplies.”

So, I plan to open up the peckerhead and take a detailed look at the wiring configuration.

[andrew whicker]

You may not have an option to re-wire the motor by simply moving the dog bone connectors in the motor. If the motor is hardwired (3 connector) for Wye, I believe you are stuck with Wye. The motor data plate on the eBay motor doesn't make sense to me... someone smarter can chime in, but none of the calculators I used seem to match the data plate... (using 0.85 power factor). Regardless, the data plate ONLY shows one voltage and amperage so I would think the motor is hardwired. All the motors I've seen w/ LV and HV tell you on the data plate.

From my personal experience, I have three 3 phase motors: one is direct wired (3 wire), one is a 6 connector and one is a 9 connector. There are also 12 connector motors. The 3 connector motor is HV only and my shop has LV (Delta.. 208v or 220v, can't remember).. so I'm effectively slowly burning the motor up, but it was a super cheap dust collector so I don't mind. And the HP is low enough that the additional amperage I'm putting thru the motor is hopefully negligible.

I think theoretically it's better to use a higher voltage than rated vs using a lower voltage than rated (due to additional heat added by additional amperage). However, arcing can also be a problem w/ higher voltage.

Anyway, I'm no expert. Just some guy who has gone down this rabbit hole before. My advice is free and probably worth about the same : )

https://control.com/technical-articl...g-infographic/

[Brian Holcombe]

Andrew, I greatly appreciate your insights and the conversation going here, it’s incredibly helpful to be able to ask a question as abstract as this one and spit ball potential answers.

I think this could be quite helpful for anyone considering going down this rabbit hole.

From what I can find, The saws are typically labeled for dual voltage even though the motors are not. The part that carries the machine tag was likely damaged at some point and replaced (it’s a different color).

So, in any case, I’ll do some sleuthing today and take some photos of what’s under the peckerhead.

[andrew whicker]

I also enjoy "power electronics" more than I should. Learning it is fun for me. I'm curious what you find.

I did find this online and I think it does match your data plate and it makes more sense to me given what you posted above from another forum. I.e. the difference btwn line and phase voltage. And the power lines up pretty well w/ the given amperage and voltage.


three phase calc.png
Good stuff! Really would be interested what you actually receive.

edit: fixed the phase angle in calculator

[Brian Holcombe]

Here is what’s inside the peckerhead.

IMG_2185.jpg

There are 6 wires, but one appears to be a neutral and another appears to be a ground.

[Brian Holcombe]

Opened up the motor, this is what I found:

IMG_2188.jpgIMG_2189.jpg

[mike stenson]

I know some motors can be configured either way. I don't know about this specific one.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’m going to remove part of the insulation and find out if it can be wired in delta. If not, I’ve got a few avenues of recourse, I can get it rewound 240v or wait and see if they sell a new motor in 240v 3ph. I’m waiting to hear back on a replacement for the broken housing end and fan cover.

[Rod Sheridan]

The 2 extra wires may be a thermal overload switch, that’s fairly common in those motors

Regards, Rod

[Chris Parks]

I have a lot of experience both with VFD's and running motors over and under speed due to the electrical power supply hz. The 10hz difference on Brian's saw will not be a problem and the only noticeable change will be the blade speed. My Clearvue with the original Leeson US sourced motor has been running at 70hz for years and every Clearvue sold in Australia runs 50hz motors at 60hz or more. Our grid runs at 50hz which is a problem with dust extractors as it means a 33% or thereabouts reduction if motor speed.

[Brian Holcombe]

I put in an order with the OEM for a new motor (and some other parts) in a larger size (3kw) that is wired 240v 60hz 3ph.

[Brian Holcombe]

Little paint, fix a part, wha-lah

IMG_2261.jpgIMG_2265.jpg