Centauro 600

[Tom Trees]

Getting a bit confused now...but thankyou again.
The current blade in use has a bad weld so it has a bit of a hump along its spine.Accounting for that the blade appears to stay perfectly in place on the wheels under rotation.
I also have again hung the teeth off the tyre as Centauro suggest.
So again I will ask how will any east/west alignment issues of the flywheels manifest when cutting.

I'd be very surprised if the blade stayed put at the very top where I've pointed, without the wheels being in alignment.
If you've got genuine Centauro tires for your CO 600, the camber will dictate where the blade goes, (so the blade will have to shift if wheels are misaligned)
and since you're no stranger to bandsaws and threads of such, you'll likely have came across the never ending threads regarding drift,
and tracking of such blades to point the blade in a favourable direction.

Also worth mentioning tracking blades on the crown, if using a narrow blade, (with misaligned wheels) makes a great recipe for nibbling off the camber apex,
resulting in a flat profile on the tires,
like you'll likely have seen on any Italian bandsaw troubleshooting publication, hence why you'd have read it in the first place.
The previous Far Eastern saw I had, one could hear the nibbles and see the rubber dust, on that terribly running saw which the company expert, nor the retailer could sort.
Keith Rucker's Diresta bandsaw series demonstrates a very clear example of a blade walking about on those huge wheels,
so if you've happened to test those new blades with the old tires, it might give explanation of why you've got drift issues, as the set could likely be damaged as mentioned above.

So we're trying to measure if the motor shaft and top wheel shaft are lying in the same planes in both x and y axes but the x axis specifically, and how to do this in straightforward way as only one of them is adjustable left to right.
I did put a dial guage on both wheels and each seemed to have a variance of about 5/100 mm,given the vagaries of a cast iron surface.
But no comparison to each other.
It would seem that to be relevant any variation needs to be measured at the horizontal mid line.
Given the relatively small diameters of the shafts this feels difficult to achieve in a meaningful way in a woodshop.
If I set the saw level and then shot a vertical laser line I'd possibly pick up some variation?

Using the 25mm blade and cranking up the tension a bit more has helped with the blade wandering.Currently wanting to rip 300mm.
The most significant issue now is the work piece drifting off the fence.
I've tried the free hand cut allowing the blade to take its course and then setting the fence to that but no joy there...?
Thankyou to all who bother to read this.

My response concerning taking any measurements, would be related to the bottom wheel and motor, not the upper wheel
since it's a datum. (be it done with wheels made accurate, or the laser mounted on the shaft)
since you didn't mention which Centauro 600 saw it was, I mentioned all three of differing builds,
then responded when asked how to align wheels, which might not be the most pleasing answer for those without the specific foolproof Centauro.

Saying that, the datum doesn't change regardless IMO, as I could have skewed the carriage to suit the motor if I wished,
when repairing damage of the fixing points, a nitty gritty job to fill, drill and tap for those bolts either side...
SAM_4491.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PrTTxBLr/SAM-4491.jpg
but that wouldn't be pleasing whatsoever, as the guidepost and table would need be skewed to suit...
so the wheels needs to be accurate to get some reference from, if not making a tool mentioned.

Mentioning axis would likely be misleading, as there's adjustments on the upper wheel on most Italian saws to account for differing tire thickness,
to suit the parallel guidepost, which would be an axis adjustment.
Plane as you mentioned, lateral rotation or tilt is a separate thing, and that's why I'm mentioning east/west, as it concerns the jacking screw adjustments which tilt the wheel shaft at the back of the lower wheel.
What might indeed be confusing matters was me mentioning anything else but sureworthy methods, and that's getting an accurate reference/datum line from the upper wheel,
as the scribing beam proved the wheels aren't to be trusted without checking/making accurate to use this method,
hence the laser mounted onto the shaft is quite likely a more sensible approach.

(I could mention I didn't find any difference getting this datum line without a blade, (for interests sake) pressing well down on the lower portion of the wheel,
so it probably isn't necessary to make up a shaft extension,
but I've read from Eric's posts that the carriage might not be quite as snug as on my ACM, so couldn't advise for surety)

Not having a groove in the wheels on my Italian machine, making the edges/lips/rims accurate, simplifies matters for me down the road should a blade snap and rip off a tire,
then I can simply line up a spare with the edge of the wheel.
Centauro or some Meber owners obviously wouldn't need to do this, if they bought a genuine replacement tire.
Scribing datum 2.jpeg
https://i.postimg.cc/MG7XN1N9/Scribing-datum-2.jpg

I could post some other miserable pictures of motor disassembly for fair warning if intending to compromise, if not having a loose drive belt, or belts to test,
but that would likely confuse matters, and besides it's a pure lottery whether the chassis behind the lower wheel might be somewhat in line with the upper wheel.
This might be a more helpful picture instead
The right shim.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/63xQtcFk/The-right-shim.jpg
All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

It's the CO 600 1996 with the adjustment hub,as in one of your photos Tom.I got in some new tyres with the moulded index for the grooved wheels from Scott and Sargeant a while back.They are crowned and show no evidence of chewing out.
In terms of any wandering,under better light and with my glasses on there might be a mm of movement.
This seems to suggest the wheels may be reasonably aligned?
There's negligible vibration in the saw.

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou Kevin.

[Tom Trees]

I couldn't say what would be tolerable, having had the impression the Italian saws all had flat profiles whilst buying new blades,
as I've only crowned my tires recently, i.e last year, as per the Centauro CO spare profile, with 1mm forward offset camber apex,
Just to mention if you've tracked a blade without consideration of that, then I'd guess its highly likely the set has been compressed.

I also couldn't say what would be tolerable regarding not aligning the motor,
but to mention I've damaged my motor bearings before, whilst here's a thread with a Centauro having lower wheel bore issues
https://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/threads/bandsaw.7131/

Whether that be from misalignment of wheels, or aligned wheels with misaligned motor, or a compromise regarding both, I've no clue.
Having sleeved my upper wheel I have no wish to find out what indeed might be tolerable.
If you look at the newer Centauro in the photo I've posted, or look at them closer on the truck in the promo video,
you might spot the motors can accommodate a longer belt compared.

All the best
Tom

[STUART Robertson]

Thanks again Tom. I guess that's possible but considering different width blades are tracked in slighty different positions I wouldn't expect the compression to be abnormal?
I always slacken the tension after use as well.
Because of the wandering and drift issues I've avoided using the machine,so the tyres have really had little use.
The bottom guides are the phenolic resin type blocks,no thrust bearing.
If I was to replace this with a thrust type setup any suggestions for that?
It's a bandsaw wilderness out here...

[Brian Holcombe]

On my saw, I adjusted the wheels to be co-planar as best as possible. I also adjusted the table to square to the machine (and to the blade), then adjusted the fence to the cutting path. My machine has a feeder, so I adjust it so that it splits the kerf evenly with an equal amount of kerf on either side of the band as it cuts.

If the blade pulls away or drives toward the fence as you're cutting, then the kerf is one of the first areas I look at.

I also look to see that the blade isn't being pushed into the thrust bearing or riding the guide bearings when you are cutting.

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou Brian.
Another query to Centauro users....
The tyres;I was sold replacement tyres from a reputable company in the U.K. (about 26,000 miles away)
I will check,but pretty sure they are crowned.
Something Tom said and have also read elsewhere is that the tyres should be flat on these saws.

[Tom M King]

The replacement OEM tires I put on mine are flat. They're the ones with a little tongue on the inside that fits in a groove on the wheels. I've never had any reason to run anything else on it. I only use 1" blades on that saw with the teeth off the front edge like the instructions for that saw call for. I use smaller blades on other bandsaws. It works great. I know I'm at least the third owner.

Here's a picture of my saw. I have no idea what year it is. I don't care a bit.

[Tom Trees]

The ones who make the saws will give different answers, to the ones who market them.
If you wanted a better answer, then you'd have to be more specific, and mention anti clastic curvature,
i.e what the profile becomes when installed on the wheels, and not what it looks like, but how it acts.
Then you might get somewhere....
It's a big part of the puzzle which sells more bandsaws, or for a friendlier answer...to throw off the competition.
Take yer pick!

[STUART Robertson]

Thankyou both Toms...
So the tyres I have are genuine Centauro ones with the index.In situ they are crowned.
Maybe Centauro have both flat and crowned tyres for their indexed wheels?
I'm really starting to wonder how much this really matters as long as the blade isn't shredding the tyre and is tracking acurately?
I think the tracking issues I'm having are due to a 25mm blade too far forward on a crowned tyre so it's always going to push the work off the fence regardless.

I've just watched a video of Ethan cutting accurate veneers with an untensioned blade just about hanging off the back of the wheel and the guides dis engaged...

The year of manufacture can help identify vagaries and specific components...

[Tom Trees]

Now you have it, the tires are both crowned and flat...
It just depends on your point of view, and whether you use a carbide tipped blade or regular...
or if you wish to attain the most beam tension from whichever blade that is.
SAM_7994.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FHLndcsV/SAM-7994.jpg

SAM_8037.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/W3X9LwXT/SAM-8037.jpg

SAM_8047.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/WtRgQDLs/SAM-8047.jpg

[STUART Robertson]

Say some more about CT blades...
apart from cost...

[Tom M King]

I resawed 10,000 lineal feet of Cypress not over 5” wide with the Woodmaster making shingles and the blade still cuts like it did to start with. Now granted, that was heart Cyress which is not very hard, and not over 5” wide, but still it was 10,000 lineal feet.

The $250 for the blade I considered cheap for as good and fast as it cuts. I’ll get it resharpened when it needs it.

[Tom Trees]

Say some more about CT blades...
apart from cost...

How about a question instead?...
Who can match the results John Teneyck is getting, as I've not seen the proof myself.
i.e for instance, who reckons Mário Martins results are just mediocre.
Take your picks of some species, he's got quite a bit of pleasant footage, (though the pushstick, or lack thereof on some videos leaves a little to be desired)


https://www.youtube.com/@mari0david/videos

[STUART Robertson]

Say something about tyres in relation to CT blades,tracking and blade position,tooth count(2tpi?)
Anyone use a feed with these non resaw saws?
I use quite a bit of cypress (Monterey) it is soft.
Also quite a bit of larch(Siberian)
seems rather abrasive.
I value others experience.
Cheers