Milling machine as a mortiser

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Chris. I will add that my methods are best suited to someone like myself, who lacks the space for dedicated machines, and even if there was this, it would be difficult to get the budget past my wife! I can justify decent-ish tools as do build a fair amount of furniture, but nothing like someone with an eye on selling. Certainly nothing like the demands of a professional such as Brian or Mark.

For mortising, I turned to mortise chisels in the past, but these days it is easier to use machines to a larger extent. This means either a router in a fixture ...



More recently I have been using the Domino DF500 and custom loose tenons using a simple positioner ...





The limitation here is that the maximum depth is 28mm ..



New version of the positioning tool (for 6, 8, 10mm) ....



On curved chair legs ...





If square-ended mortises are required, then use a hollow chisel to square them. Easy to sharpen and quick to work ...



Like Andrew, the idea of a milling machine for mortising has crossed my mind a few times. I have tried a bench top mortiser (I was given), and it lasted 5 minutes before giving it back - simply unable to cope with the hard woods I use. In any event, I really did not wish to add anther machine.

The question I now have is how well my Nova Voyager drill press would fare using end mill bits? Again, the one's I have are limited in depth of cut (around 25mm). Are there longer makes you can suggest? I would focus on 10mm, 8mm, 6mm mortises. Why this drill press? Well it would be fast to set up (with added cross slide vise), have plenty of grunt (2 h.p), negligible run out, and the ideal speed setting is there to be dialled in. But ... will the morse taper for the chuck be capable of withstanding the lateral forces? If not, is there an alternate chuck which could be used? The router and the Domino move to cut, and these lateral forces are not issues then (I assume).

Regards from Perth (currently in Wellington, New Zealand)

Derek

[Warren Lake]

I used a General drill press with attachment for a while. We didnt have the benefit of Jack who showed why chisels need attention over how they come. I took the plastic knob off one handle and put a bar from a bar clamp on for more leverage. Id say drill presses are not meant for the pressure i put on them or at least that one with a bit that could have been better. I tortured it for sure but it paid for a floor model mortiser.

[Chris Parks]

The question I now have is how well my Nova Voyager drill press would fare using end mill bits? Again, the one's I have are limited in depth of cut (around 25mm). Are there longer makes you can suggest? I would focus on 10mm, 8mm, 6mm mortises. Why this drill press? Well it would be fast to set up (with added cross slide vise), have plenty of grunt (2 h.p), negligible run out, and the ideal speed setting is there to be dialled in. But ... will the morse taper for the chuck be capable of withstanding the lateral forces? If not, is there an alternate chuck which could be used? The router and the Domino move to cut, and these lateral forces are not issues then (I assume).

Regards from Perth (currently in Wellington, New Zealand)

Derek

Don't use a drill press if you value it and it cost a lot of money. DP's do not like lateral loads and can easily be damaged doing it, I have not personally seen it happen but the general consensus is don't do it. Using an xy table in that manner just applies the load in a different way. I made an xy table with DRO's on both axis and that is very handy but I would not try putting lateral loads on it as some users do.

[Derek Cohen]

Chris, that is my concern. I think the quill is strong enough, but the morse taper is not designed for lateral forces, and will drop out. At the same time I wonder if technique can overcome this - for example, plunging down along the mortice, and only cleaning up when there is minimal material to remove?

Note that I am not considering the drill press as a mill (such as levelling metals), but rather to "mill", that is, clean out the wooden waste in mortises.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Carl Beckett]

I use the mill on wood from time to time. Works quite fine. (also use the metal lathe with wood from time to time). The limitation is the vertical work and since a lot of mortising is on the end of a piece it may be limiting in this.

The sawdust does soak up the way oil - I just clean up and reoil afterwards. Not a production shop so am not worried about wear.

[Brian Holcombe]

Howdy Derek, I wouldn’t do it with the drill press, the Morse taper is one thing but the taper into the top of the chuck is also very short. Drill chucks also complain a lot about being used in this fashion.

[andrew whicker]

Balestrini tenoner, twin table, automatic continuous operation, cuts round end tenons, scribes shoulders, chamfers tenon. Infinitely variable length, thickness and radius. straight, angled and compound angles. mortise length up to 100mm plus the thickness, thickness up to 30mm, depth to 80mm. they can also cut round dowels. If i recall the maximum output was either 600 or 900 per hour. I never really counted, but I cut thousand of tenons for tables and chairs on these machines, and the are excellent, along with the twin table mortiser

I've definitely seen those on the used market. Very cool machinery. I've never much liked rounded slots and I certainly don't have enough work to justify a "Production machine" yet... If I were to get a machine that falls into this sort of category, I'd be looking for a dovetail machine to make baltic birch drawer boxes. The vendors that make boxes here have a poor finish quality to them so there could be a market for me.

[andrew whicker]

so the tooling used for a mortiser is unique and not something that fits into drill chuck?

The quill on this Cincinnati has a 3.5" travel... so not very much. I haven't heard back from them on price yet, but I'm assuming it's an awkward price point the more I think about it. You can buy desktop milling machines (CNC) for a little over 10k where I think having a fully outfitted knee mill (DRO, X and Y feed motors) would probably be the same price.. right?

It just annoys me to have a tool that takes up as much space as a mortiser and it has only one function. AND it doesn't solve the male tenon problem at all. If I do get a setup for mortise and tenon, I'd love to have the Japanese tenoner, but the times I've looked they are no where to be found. I did find someone that made their own and has drawings available.

OTH, the more I think about how much it will (probably) cost to get a knee mill going, it will probably no longer make financial sense?

This machine goes for 3k.. but after this discussion this idea may be dead in the water anyway. (http://www.machineryconsultants.com/...illing-machine)

[John TenEyck]

Derek, you are a gifted builder of jigs. You should build one of my horizontal router mortisers. It will change your way of woodworking with regards to mortising, and so much more.




It doesn't take up much space (24 x 18 x 16") and is easily moved and stored. I built my first one out of MDF for about $50, so it fits nearly any budget. I've seen your machines, however, so I know your budget isn't that tight. I have a SketchUp model on my webpage of the original model, still being used by a friend nearly 15 years later. But it doesn't take much to see what I did with the new one. The cleverest bit, is the tiltable table on my new model. It makes mortising, including compound angles, on chair parts much easier, an added benefit you might be interested in.

You can learn more about it at my webpage. https://sites.google.com/view/jteney...ser?authuser=1
For anyone who doesn't use SketchUp, I can send you a set of PDF files showing all the major parts, with dimensions.

Derek, you can buy spiral upcut endmills in really long lengths, even 6" with a 3" depth of cut. However, they are not recommended for handheld routers or router tables. I've never tried one in my HRM because I've never thought I needed mortises that deep. I do, however, use bits up to 4" long with a 2" cutting length, which allows me to cut mortises 2-1/2" deep. Here's a link to one such bit:
https://bitsbits.com/product/540-srf500-up-cut/

John

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Andrew, These machines were designed primarily for chairs. The tenonner can do square end tenons up to 30mm thick x100 long x 80mm deep.

Like warren mentioned chain mortisers are great for deep slots like doors.

There is another mortising machine called an Alternax made by Parveau, which is a pretty cool machine.

Maka swing chisel type are probably the most versatile. Sm series cut up to 4" deep. The larger machines up to 5" deep

The first photo on the left below show single mortises cut with a Maka SM 6, The other two photos shows mortises cut with double chisel sets.

The video is of a Maka sm6pII it's quick and clean. don't blink.

SAM_6088.jpg SAM_6093.JPG SAM_6089.JPG

I've definitely seen those on the used market. Very cool machinery. I've never much liked rounded slots and I certainly don't have enough work to justify a "Production machine" yet... If I were to get a machine that falls into this sort of category, I'd be looking for a dovetail machine to make baltic birch drawer boxes. The vendors that make boxes here have a poor finish quality to them so there could be a market for me.

[Warren Lake]

those machines are amazing Mark. Fast and clean. I guess the bottom left has a bit of a round to it which is fine. Derek here is what you were asking I think and side bar says there are two type of end mills and one type plunges. I used tons of end mills and all of them plunged but i was using them running off the sides for the most part in a router.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZN1bT9RicI

[Bruce Page]

Chris, that is my concern. I think the quill is strong enough, but the morse taper is not designed for lateral forces, and will drop out.
Regards from Perth

Derek

I had a MT chuck fall out of the quill while side milling on a DP. It got very exciting very quickly.