Good source if you want to try Japanese planes

[Cameron Wood]

I came across this Ebay seller who is knowledgeable, skilled, and has good prices on planes that he has sharpened and tuned.

Buying here would save hours of work vs other used or new and are pre-selected by a qualified eye.

If you live in a more dry climate than Japan, there will still need to be acclimating time, and more conditioning, but a great value.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/37533959268...QM6HDY5SQQ1XBY

[Richard Coers]

Incredibly wide mouth on those two planes. Many craftsman would want to add an inlay to bring those up to high quality.

[Luke Dupont]

Incredibly wide mouth on those two planes. Many craftsman would want to add an inlay to bring those up to high quality.

Looks to me like the blades are just backed out a few mm.

[Joshua Lucas]

And even if the mouth is as wide as it appears, these are double-iron planes so the mouth matters much less than it does with a single iron.

[Richard Coers]

Looks to me like the blades are just backed out a few mm.

How you tell they are backed out from that angle is beyond me. You really think he backed them out after showing the curls? The only showed a tapered curl, and one plane shows an angled iron. The mouth is big.

[Richard Coers]

And even if the mouth is as wide as it appears, these are double-iron planes so the mouth matters much less than it does with a single iron.

Whatever you want to justify is fine, I would have to do an inlay in my shop, or not buy them in the first place. If the supplier was as good as suggested, a wide mouth should be mentioned in the description. Not a great angle, but this is what they are supposed to look like.
Screenshot 2024-04-30 at 1.24.25 PM.jpg

[Cameron Wood]

I have planes with very close mouths, but these are some that I use the most, for heavy, and medium utility cuts. IME, final, high level smoothing is only 10% of hand plane use.
They each took up to 2 hours to set up after I got them on Ebay some years ago. Currently they get a little attention when things get dry in the Summer here, and again in Winter when it is more humid.

IMG_4963.jpgIMG_4964.jpg

[Luke Dupont]

How you tell they are backed out from that angle is beyond me. You really think he backed them out after showing the curls? The only showed a tapered curl, and one plane shows an angled iron. The mouth is big.

Hmm, maybe you're right. Some photos make the mouth look fairly normal size. Others, it looks rather large. It's difficult to tell whether the iron is in a cutting position or not.

I do also find a small mouth to be helpful even if using the chipbreaker, especially with Japanese planes and the lower angle at which the bed is typically cut. So definitely something to be conscious of.

[Charles Edward]

The epitome of needless rabbit holes.

[Cameron Wood]

The epitome of needless rabbit holes.

I'm guessing that you mean that Japanese planes are more complex than western ones, and so not worth using. I'm curious if the comment is based on first hand knowledge or not.

[Charles Edward]

I'm guessing that you mean that Japanese planes are more complex than western ones, and so not worth using. I'm curious if the comment is based on first hand knowledge or not.

It's based on first-hand knowledge acquired by having gone down rabbit holes before and learning to recognize new ones before descending into them -- a skill I can recommend without reservation, but one apparently very scarce among people who frequent woodworking forums.

But, yes, for a brief moment in time in the 1980s I went briefly down that rabbit hole when Japan was foisting absolute junk on American woodworkers who really didn't know any better - you know, made by "Master Tsai" himself, or whoever, who has been 95 years old for the past twenty years. One could be barely conscious and still note these blokes have extraordinary longevity and productive lives well into their 130s... P.T. Barnum would have approved.

Get some Stanley or Record planes of decent vintage, ones that show signs of use (they worked for somebody!), and get on with your woodworking.

[Luke Dupont]

It's based on first-hand knowledge acquired by having gone down rabbit holes before and learning to recognize new ones before descending into them -- a skill I can recommend without reservation, but one apparently very scarce among people who frequent woodworking forums.

But, yes, for a brief moment in time in the 1980s I went briefly down that rabbit hole when Japan was foisting absolute junk on American woodworkers who really didn't know any better - you know, made by "Master Tsai" himself, or whoever, who has been 95 years old for the past twenty years. One could be barely conscious and still note these blokes have extraordinary longevity and productive lives well into their 130s... P.T. Barnum would have approved.

Get some Stanley or Record planes of decent vintage, ones that show signs of use (they worked for somebody!), and get on with your woodworking.

Wow, is that how they were marketing Japanese tools in the 80's? I think that was more Western marketing of anything Asian at the time. The same nonsense occurred with Martial Arts of all flavors. The key then as today is not to make sweeping generalizations, but to separate the wheat from the chaff. When it's easy to market subpar things to people who know no better, you can expect an abundance of supply. But if you're discerning, you will also find the gems among them.

After having moved to Japan, it feels like getting good Western planes was definitely an expensive rabbit hole. Just had to order them on ebay, pay over $100 in shipping, and pay up like 3-4 times what I used to for the planes back in the states years ago.

On the other hand, I can find quality, and very utilitarian Japanese planes locally, here in Japan. So they now make up the majority of what I use.

There's something to be said for keeping it simple and going for what's locally available. And I have to say that I do have a slight preference for Western tools. There's nothing magical or exotic about tools here, albeit there are some highly sought after smiths. But that isn't what most people use. Most Japanese tools are utilitarian, and quite nice to use if you work in a more Japanese manner sitting on the floor. They excel for that, and if you're not working on a bench, you'll find nothing better. But for standing upright and working, Western tools are mostly superior.

Most people woodwork for a hobby rather than as a job. If your goal is to work more efficiently and increase your skill in the craft, it makes sense to stick with what you know.

If you're just doing it for fun and enjoy exploring rabbit holes though, well... I don't suppose there's anything wrong with chasing rabbits down holes other than the immense cost that is generally associated with doing so! Whether it's worth it probably depends on your net worth more than anything... That said, I don't think that most people who work in an entirely Western manner will fully appreciate or get the benefit from Japanese tools. Most people going down rabbit holes just buy the toys but don't necessarily use them as intended, which can make the experience more lackluster overall.

[Charles Edward]

Wow, is that how they were marketing Japanese tools in the 80's? I think that was more Western marketing of anything Asian at the time. The same nonsense occurred with Martial Arts of all flavors. The key then as today is not to make sweeping generalizations, but to separate the wheat from the chaff. When it's easy to market subpar things to people who know no better, you can expect an abundance of supply. But if you're discerning, you will also find the gems among them.

After having moved to Japan, it feels like getting good Western planes was definitely an expensive rabbit hole. Just had to order them on ebay, pay over $100 in shipping, and pay up like 3-4 times what I used to for the planes back in the states years ago.

On the other hand, I can find quality, and very utilitarian Japanese planes locally, here in Japan. So they now make up the majority of what I use.

There's something to be said for keeping it simple and going for what's locally available. And I have to say that I do have a slight preference for Western tools. There's nothing magical or exotic about tools here, albeit there are some highly sought after smiths. But that isn't what most people use. Most Japanese tools are utilitarian, and quite nice to use if you work in a more Japanese manner sitting on the floor. They excel for that, and if you're not working on a bench, you'll find nothing better. But for standing upright and working, Western tools are mostly superior.

Most people woodwork for a hobby rather than as a job. If your goal is to work more efficiently and increase your skill in the craft, it makes sense to stick with what you know.

If you're just doing it for fun and enjoy exploring rabbit holes though, well... I don't suppose there's anything wrong with chasing rabbits down holes other than the immense cost that is generally associated with doing so! Whether it's worth it probably depends on your net worth more than anything... That said, I don't think that most people who work in an entirely Western manner will fully appreciate or get the benefit from Japanese tools. Most people going down rabbit holes just buy the toys but don't necessarily use them as intended, which can make the experience more lackluster overall.

Enjoy your woodworking.

[Cameron Wood]

The real deal at work. Plane at 3:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZd8btDlO6A&t=233s