New Rikon Mini Lathe

[John Hart]

Well ok...Lets talk about horses again. If you put a Clydesdale on a treadmill and ask him to run toward some beer, he will be able to run at a certain speed and burn a certain number of calories. If you place a drag on the treadmill, he will have to burn more calories to acheive the same speed...Loss of power.

The motor doesn't care about beer, it can only acheive up to 1/2 HP. When it is under a no-load condition, it runs freely and does not put out 1/2 HP. As you increase the load, the power consumption increases, and therefore the HP increases....until eventually, the motor is peaked and suffers a complete loss of power caused by the motor exceeding it's designed current/load limit.(Stall)

All devices in the mechanical circuit are additive to the total load experienced by the motor. This includes bearings, shaft alignment, pulley alignment, belt tension...then on to adding a 5 pound weight, misalignment between Head and Tail Stock, Pressure of the Live Center to the wood, Radial pressure caused by the wood grain, axial pressure on the bearing races, off-balanced wood etc....

After all these things are added up, the remaining available HP is what you have left to work with. So all I'm saying is you could probably put a Ammeter on the power line of both lathes under a no-load condition, and one of them will probably show a higher current draw, indicating that one is working harder than the other with no wood involved. Or, you can place your hand or a dull tool on the wood and apply pressure to see how much it takes to make the motor stall.

All the while, keep in mind that not all 1/2 HP motors are equal. Some companies will make same-rated motors with less than desireable laminations in their motor rotors and stators. I assume Jet and Rikon use different motor manufacturers.

Anyway...don't mean to be argumentative. Just was involved in one or two motor projects once.

[John Hart]

OK Don, following this some what. Would not two spindles running at the same, top end speed, 3900 rpm, each powered by a 1/2 hp motor running at 1750 rpm have the same torque out-put?

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a true statement....however, if one is running at a higher current level and closer to its limit, then it will take less pressure to stop it. This is considering that they are AC induction motors.

[Bill Stevener]

Well ok...Lets talk about horses again. If you put a Clydesdale on a treadmill and ask him to run toward some beer, he will be able to run at a certain speed and burn a certain number of calories. If you place a drag on the treadmill, he will have to burn more calories to acheive the same speed...Loss of power.

The motor doesn't care about beer, it can only acheive up to 1/2 HP. When it is under a no-load condition, it runs freely and does not put out 1/2 HP. As you increase the load, the power consumption increases, and therefore the HP increases....until eventually, the motor is peaked and suffers a complete loss of power caused by the motor exceeding it's designed current/load limit.(Stall)

All devices in the mechanical circuit are additive to the total load experienced by the motor. This includes bearings, shaft alignment, pulley alignment, belt tension...then on to adding a 5 pound weight, misalignment between Head and Tail Stock, Pressure of the Live Center to the wood, Radial pressure caused by the wood grain, axial pressure on the bearing races, off-balanced wood etc....

After all these things are added up, the remaining available HP is what you have left to work with. So all I'm saying is you could probably put a Ammeter on the power line of both lathes under a no-load condition, and one of them will probably show a higher current draw, indicating that one is working harder than the other with no wood involved. Or, you can place your hand or a dull tool on the wood and apply pressure to see how much it takes to make the motor stall.

All the while, keep in mind that not all 1/2 HP motors are equal. Some companies will make same-rated motors with less than desireable laminations in their motor rotors and stators. I assume Jet and Rikon use different motor manufacturers.

Anyway...don't mean to be argumentative. Just was involved in one or two motor projects once.

John,
I hope nothing on my end would ever be the cause of any arguments when it comes to the electrical end. You are the man when it comes to any questions I may have in the final out-put of what, how and why it goes around end.
I totally agree with all of the factors you pointed out above. Didn't mean to get the horse drunk. The most being the manufacturing and quality of the components used in the make-up of the motor.

As the review of two lathes of different manufactures has been presented, each supporting the use of a 1/2 hp motor, I believe it would be beneficial to one considering the purchase of a new lathe if the manufacturer would note the torque rating of the spindle out-put. This would be another tool to use in choosing a lathe, other than which one has a better chip resistance in the paint used.

I guess they can all use the hp--tq. forumula and give the same tq. value, if the same hp. motor is used.

Just a nice thing that some take the time to compare "hands-on" experiences with two different lathes of equal?? hp. so others can use that as a tool during a purchase choice.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[John Hart]

You see...that's why I don't want horses. They drink too much and are a bad influence on my kids.

[Randy Meijer]

I think that manufacturer's HP ratings are about like car makers gas milage figures!! Do you know anyone who ever got the gas milage promised on the window sticker?? There is "NO" reason to assume that the JET 1/2 horse motor is capable of the same power output as the Rikon 1/2 horse motor or visa versa just because both are labeled as 1/2 horse motors. While I am sure that all of the suggested possibilities for the differences in performance may contribute marginally; I have no doubt that the Rikon motor just works harder than the JET.

[Cliff Bishop]

I have been turning on my Rikon for the last six months and overall have been very happy with it. It is a tough unit and performs very well, I agree a little clunky changing belt speeds but no big deal. Some loose bolts at first but after tightening up everything it has been a fine tool from pens to bowls no problem. I think it will be even a better unit after a few years when all bugs are worked out. I would buy another one as it stands right now.

[paul ashman]

Just another 2 cents here, but if you are looking at the rikon and the jet mini, then make sure to check out the new jet 1220. It has a 3/4 hp motor with 12 inch swing and 20 between centers. I have had mine for 6 months now and love it.

[Mike Lipke]

Though both the Jet Mini and the Rikon Mini claim 1/2 hp, the Rikon motor is, I believe, pulls 2 more amps than the Jet.

Manufacturers can claim almost anything they want to as far as hp. I have a shop vac that claims 6 hp, but that is obviously absurd.

On two similar motors, the one with the most amps draw will provide the most power.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike,

With all due respect, I don't know that I can agree with that statement. The reason is that some motors are more efficient than others. In other words, I can have a motor drawing 12 amps....another motor drawing 10 amps but is more efficient and as a result they both have the same resultant h/p. This is one area where I think manufacturers can really take advantage of the consumer. I truly wish there was a standard method of measuring h/p of motors that all manufacturers had to use so the consumer could make an accurate comparison.

[John Cooper2]

Just my two pennies, I had bought a new ricon then a week later I aquired a slightly used Jet. Had time to spend with both. Kept the Ricon, sold the Jet. Yes the Jet was slightly used when I got it, but I don't think it had more than an hour on it when I got it.

Both are good machines, Liked a couple of the features on the Ricon better. The Ricon seamed to be a much smoother machine. Bought it on sale at Woodcraft for under $200.00, don't regret it for a second.

John

[Mike Lipke]

That's why I said "similar" motors.
If you look thru a Grainger catalogue, you will see what I mean.
Similar types of motors by different manufacturers and price points come amazingly close on aperage draw for the same hp.

[Dick Strauss]

Different companies are more or less conservative with their ratings. For example, Delta uses a 9.8A/110V motor and conservatively calls it a 3/4hp unit. Harbor Freight calls their DC a 2 hp unit even though the motor draws 14A (this is a max of 1.25hp in actuality). My Rigid shop vac uses 9A and they call it a 3.5 peak hp unit (what a joke!).

A good rule of thumb to determine the real HP is to take the amps/11=HP for 110V (or Amps/5.5 for 220V) which translates to a 62% efficiency. So an 11A motor should be close to 1hp. If a motor were 100% efficient, it would take only 7A to deliver 1hp. However, most motors are less than 75% efficient.

IMHO the current tells a more realistic story than any other measure given the wide latitude in hp ratings.