Separate Machines v Combo Machines

[Kenneth D. Stein]

I am returning to woodworking after a 25 year absence. The main area of my shop will be 16x30 with a 10x15 L. I would like to so furniture and do turning. Furniture will be primarily out of hardwood; less sheet goods.

My inclination had been to purchase a MM 16 or 20, PM66, PM 12" Jointer and 20" Planer etc. I looked at a MM combo machine which just appeared to be huge for a 16' wide shop. But what do I know. Then I started to look at a MM saw only and a MM PJ 12 or 14" or a Felder 12" or 16 PJ.

I would be grateful for your thoughts on what to buy.

[Mike Waddell]

Ken -

I have a smallish shop and ended up going with a combo machine. With the size and shape of the space that I have, it made sense to me, and I have not regretted it for one moment. The capacity and efficiency of a combo made sense for me.

However, if I had more space I would purchase separate machines with similar or more capacity than I currently have. The switchover from jointer to planer and vice versa is not time consuming, but I would love to not have to reset the planer height each time.

Just my two cents.

Mike

[Bert Johansen]

Ken, I recently purchased a used Robland X-31 and it works well in a smallish shop. The footprint is about the same as my old cabinet saw, and you get the advantage of a horizontal morticing machine and shaper, which aren't usually seen in small shops. I did keep my portable planer, because it is inconvenient to crank up the Robland planer every time I want to use it. And the prices for used combos is excellent if you don't have to ship it. (I got lucky and found mine five miles from home.)
Bert

P.S. I had hand-cut half 8 mortices for a bench before I got the X-31. The next four were done on the shaper with a slot-cutting blade and took about 10 minutes including set-up time. What a breeze!
B

[Frank Pellow]

I see that this is your first post here Ken. So, welcome to Saw Mill Creek. I learned a great deal here when I was building and equipping my shop a couple of years ago, and I hope that you will be as fortunate as I was.

My shop is about the same size as yours and I looked very closely at combo machines and also at combo jointer/planers. In the end, I opted for seperate machines on mobile bases and that seems to be working well for me.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to the 'Creek!

I happen to like the combination of a wide jointer/planer with the table saw format your prefer as well as a great bandsaw. While I currently use a cabinet saw (Jet LT), I will likely move to a Mini Max sliding saw or saw/shaper combo "someday". The reason I favor the separate J/P is that I really use my jointer a lot and bounce between it and the saw frequently...not to mention it fits in my shop better than a full combo would. Actually, a full combo in my shop wouldn't work due to a "conveniently placed" stairway to the upper floor of my shop building...

[Charlie Plesums]

Welcome to the creek

In my two car "studio" I have the largest MiniMax combo machine, a lathe, bandsaw, drill press, drum sander, radial arm saw, dust collector, and at least 300 bf of lumber. When there is no project "in process" I can still get a car into the "studio." So hopefully, this eliminates the issue of space.

The large slider with outrigger is absolutely great for sheet goods, but I also use it for hardwoods far more that I expected. Cutting the first straight edge on a rough board (or on a veneered panel) becomes trivial. A 6 foot cross-cut fence makes precise cuts routine. The outrigger on the slider seems huge, but it goes on or off in just a minute or so, thus I put it on for the big cuts at the beginning of a project, and remove it later in the project, when I need more space for assembly. Despite the quick on/off, I still get cuts accurate to a couple thousandths of an inch.

I wouldn't trade my combo for anything at this point, but if I had a lot more space, I would choose a saw/shaper with slider/outrigger combo, and a separate jointer/planer/mortiser combo. That takes more room (in my combo the jointer table becomes part of the saw table), but there are times when I would like to go back and forth... from the shaper to the planer, for example.

The precision and productivity that come from high end machines like this are far beyond anything I had expected... it brings new pleasure to woodworking. Did I mention that I like my combo?

Charlie

[Paul B. Cresti]

Kenneth,
Welcome to the Creek. First off I have an all MM shop, so I am a wee bit biased. I have the 16" j/p with the horizontal mortising attachment (just made a nice auxillary table & indexing system for it, will post it in a day or two) and I would not trade it in for anything. I have a 25x25 shop and it fits my space nicely. I sold off my General model 130 14" planer (Canadian one), PM 60 (USA one) 8" joiner and PM 719 mortiser to defer its cost. It was the best thing I did. Not only does it excell at everything but I also gain a Tersa head.

I also have a MM Formula S35 10.5 ft slider, T50n shaper (with slider & outrigger table) and a MM 24 bandsaw. I also have some other stuff in there to and still have room to work. When I work on a very large assembly I simply roll my J/P off to the side.

I would say if you want to max out your assembly space, are very tight on space yet still want the quality & precision these machine have to offer, go the full combo route. If you have a little more space than a J/P and saw/shaper combo work a little better, now this is just my opinion because there are many people, like Charlie here that produce wonderful work with a full combo. For me, I wanted a separate saw and shaper plus I eased into these MM machines over a 2-1/2 year period so I bought them over time.

I am assuming of course you are ok with the costs of these machines as they are not cheap but then again nothing high in quality ever is. Feel free to ask any other questions and good luck with your search.

[lou sansone]

I have looked at lots of combo machines ( the concept is not new BTW - my first 24" band saw came from an old combo machine from the late 1800's ). Some like the all in one concept, I personally don't, but you have to make that choice. I have all seperates ( 16" jointer, 24" planer, 36" band saw ....) but if I had to combine any of them it would be the jointer planer.

lou

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

there is combo and then there is combo.

I'm looking at the Felder / Hammer combo jointer/planer. That's enough combo for me. It may be too much.

A whole combo 5 station machine is wayyyy too sophisticated for me. I just don't have the high level orginization skills to get the most from one of those things. I prefer to futz around a bit.

When you observe the demonstrations you are watching a well rehearsed series. They leave nothign to chance. I've got the Laguna DVD where they show you how "easy" it is to re-trace your steps. It's well rehearsed and only involves one back step.

[tod evans]

kenneth, welcome! i prefer separates but that`s a matter of personal preference. it sounds like you`re looking at some pretty good machinery so take your time and read all you can stand, then ask local folks to let you drive their stuff and ask lotsa questions.....only then cut a check! good equipment ain`t cheap so only do this once .02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

Welcome Kenneth!!
My machines are all seperate. No combos

[Charlie Plesums]

Another 2 cents worth...

Before I got my combo, I had separate jointer, planer, saw, etc. I spent more time arranging them for infeed and outfeed clearance than I spend switching functions on my combo. If I had a large shop area, maybe I would have been able to leave each machine in place ready to use, but it never seemed to work that way.

The only change-over time on the combo that bothers me is when I want to use the planer while the shaper hood is in the back position used with the smaller router bits... the dust collection on the shaper interferes with lifting the jointer table. That combination is not something I encounter often.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

each "Combo" machine is different of course.
Check out what's necessary to change from one function to another. That is what this machine is all about. The changeover. The quality and ease of changing from one function to another is the most important thing to look at. I'm sure quality of cut is excellent on all of them when they are properly set up.
I have the smaller MM combo. To use my planer, I have to remove my TS fence. It gets to be a drag.
If I were to do it over again, a combo saw/shaper and another J/P would be the perfect setup.

MJH

[Paul Canaris]

If space is dictating your needs go with a combination unit. I have used and or owned several (Robland, MM, Felder/Knapp), and all are functional. If you are going with a combo, just be aware that they all require switch over between functions which can be a pain. I started with separates, went to a combo due to a move and ended up with a combination of a semi-combo and separates. The manufacturer's noted above all increase from left to right in terms of quality of build, accessories and features and of course cost, so the spread is around $6,000 to $30,000. I currently own a combination sliding table saw with shaper; and separates for the planer and jointer and have found this to be the easiest to live with. If you’d like I think I still have an excel spreadsheet that compared the features of these units with associated costs.