Need advice - I might get to build a new shop!

[Matt Meiser]

We are considering making an offer on a new house. One of the things we are going to include in the offer is that the builder will need to build my shop. My wife and I have agreed that I should build the shop immediately rather than temporarily use the attached garage or basement because of noise and dust, especially in a brand new house. Who am I to argue with that logic?

I've been working on a basic list of requirements for the shop to include in the offer. The plan is to have them put up the shell, run gas and electric, then I will finish the inside as time permits. Here is my list:

Garage:
- 24x32 garage/shop
- frame construction
- 1 9x7 door in 24’ wall facing road
- 1 36” Steel entry door facing house
- 2 36x36” double hung double pane windows facing house
- Exterior finish (siding/shingles) to match house
- 4” concrete slab with reinforcing mesh
- min 1 row of block above finished slab
- Underground natural gas line run to garage from house
- 100A underground electrical service run to garage, installed as a subpanel to house panel. Panel to support min. 16 single pole circuits and match brand/type installed in house.
- Door/Window placement to be approved by me before construction
- Site plan to be approved by me before construction.

Another question for those with "2-1/2 car" garages: will there be room for a lawn tractor, all the accessories, a grill, lawn furniture, and other assorted items in the garage with two cars? Our current house has a detached 22x20 garage with a 22x10 addition on the back that we use for storing all that stuff. I'm wondering if I should divide up the new space in a similar manner and add an additional, smaller overhead door into that space for getting the tractor in and out. Inside I'd have a door to access the space, which I wouldn't heat. I don't want to keep the tractor and stuff in the heated woodworking area. In the future we'd probably put up a shed for the tractor and stuff.

[Todd Burch]

Go for as big a space as you can afford. Go with the highest ceiling you can get away with. Plan for the ceiling to support all the stuff you will store in the attic. Have the builder put a deck up there in full sheets so you don't have to squeeze it up there later. Make a separate space for anything that you don't want to have sawdust on (like a lawn tractor). Think about another roll-up door in the back if you ever want a breeze through the place. Polished concrete is good - stay away from any raised sections of flooring. Have him run a second empty conduit from the house, in case you want to run a phone or computer line later. Don't forget a 4" pipe for your toilet and sink... That should do it.
Todd.

[Steve Clardy]

I'd go with at least 9' ceiling, they make studs for them. Also maybe 2x6 walls. The cost difference between 2x4 walls and 2x6 is minimal, especially being able to have more insulation. Will make it more comfy, less heating bills. And yes, maybe wall off a section for you tractor and stuff.

[Kevin Hewitt]

Hi Matt,

Good suggestions so far. Higher ceilings are great for swinging around the lumber and radiant heat from above. Thicker walls and insulation keeps the heat in and it keeps it out.

The only suggestion I'll make is a larger panel. 100A is great but breakers will chew up a 16 space panel quicker than you think. I'd go 24 or bigger. The cost isn't that much more.

You're realizing what I day dream about. Have fun.


Gump

[Jim Becker]

Matt, in addition to the other comments, either make the big door a roll-up or something else that will not block the ceiling/lighting, etc. I also think you will be quite cramped if you have to dedicate space to storage of the lawn equipment, etc. If you can afford it...stretch that building a little longer for the storage space! It's easier and less expensive to do it now, rather than later...

[Matt Meiser]

Todd, Thanks, I almost forgot about the phone line. Although I've been wondering if those new cordless phones with remote units would work that far? It would be nice for me to be able to call into the house or vice-versa.

Kevin, According to the sheet from the realtor, for some reason the house only has 150A service, which seems odd. If that is true, upgrading the house to 200A will be part of our offer. Then, I'll propose that they just move the house panel out to the garage and change out the main breaker if possible.

Hopefully the builder will go for all of this. If not, I guess we keep looking!

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Matt,

you might like an extra room for finishing, too, and be sure to have 220 V.

Regards,

Christian

[Don Farr]

Matt, Lots of really good advise already, so if I repeat something please forgive me. I did this very same thing a little over two years ago and I will tell you what I wish that I would have done differently. Mine is 20' X 40' X 10' ceilings.
Rather than using engineered trusses for the roof they stick built it, resulting in two support columns in the middle of the shop. They take up a lot of room and are always in the way.
The electrician laughed at me when I told him how many outlets that I wanted. Since then I have added 4 -240 volt and numerous more 120 volt outlets an still don't have enough. Go for all you can afford.
Try to complete the inside before moving anything in. It is a real pain to do it after the fact.
Like Jim said, consider a garage door that rolls up. Mine doesn't and it does create a dark corner.
Depending on the sun and how you lay out the shop on your land, try to use your windows to let in as much light as possible. My windows are on the east side which gives me good light in the morning and none in the afternoon.
Finish your concrete floor before you move in. Check out Terry Hatfields post on this. He did a great job on his.
Plan, plan and plan some more. Where is your air compressor going (noisy), work benches and power equipment. Are you going to put in a dust collector in the future? How are you going to run the pipes for that.
Security? I wish that I would have tied mine into the house system.
And finally the phone. I ran the wire from the house to the shop but wound up using the wireless w/ intercom that you mentioned. Works great. I would say the receiver is about 150 feet away. Go with the 2.4 gig. Lots of luck.

[Jim Becker]

Rather than using engineered trusses for the roof they stick built it, resulting in two support columns in the middle of the shop.

Very good point. Engineered lumber and trusses are the only way to go and really don't cost much more, if any. The spans they can do are wonderful...my shop is 21' wide and the engineered joists require no support, yet are light-weight.

Security? I wish that I would have tied mine into the house system.

Excellent point. No matter where you live in the country, this is more and more of a requirement.

And finally the phone. I ran the wire from the house to the shop but wound up using the wireless w/ intercom that you mentioned. Works great. I would say the receiver is about 150 feet away. Go with the 2.4 gig. Lots of luck.

I currently use a 2.4ghz multiline phone sytem which gives both phone and intercom to the shop as well as the rest of the property...and down the road a short way! But it's generally a good idea to have conduit between the buildings, rather than just buried wires, so you can make future adjustments and additions for both telcom, LAN, CATV and security. You don't want to have to dig in the future.

Also, I forgot to mention in my first post that "facilities" are a good idea if you can accomodate them. A laundry sink and a toilet are the best thing since sliced bread for both comfort and clean-up. I'll also be putting in a shower when I get the bathroom in my shop/office building.

[Don Farr]

I currently use a 2.4ghz multiline phone sytem which gives both phone and intercom to the shop as well as the rest of the property...and down the road a short way! But it's generally a good idea to have conduit between the buildings, rather than just buried wires, so you can make future adjustments and additions for both telcom, LAN, CATV and security. You don't want to have to dig in the future.

I absolutely agree with the extra conduit. PVC is cheap if that is what he chooses to go with. I was just saying the phone does work very well at distances.
This just give me an idea I bet I could use the unused phone line to tie into my house security.

[Jim Becker]

I absolutely agree with the extra conduit. PVC is cheap if that is what he chooses to go with. I was just saying the phone does work very well at distances.

It's important to use the correct material for your conduit to insure that it remains weather-proof and intact over time. The grey conduit made for the purpose is what you want...and be sure to leave a pull string in it!

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Matt. There is a lot of good advice posted above. Let me tell you what I did for my new shop.

1) If you think you will have enough room, then add about 30 percent to it.
2) Plan for a separate finishing room.
3) Use at least 2x6 wall studs. I used 8" structural insulated panels for a R30 insulation.
4) There is no need to have support posts in the shop. Use I-joists! Our garage attached to the house is 25x34 and there are no support posts -- all I-joists running the 25 ft, front to back. The shop has no post either.
5) Do have plywood decking in the attic.
6) Do have at least 12" of insulation in the attic.
7) Do have a 200 Amp service installed. I have a separate meter for my shop.
8) Put a 240v/20a outlet with every second 120v wall outlet.
9) Consider a trench in the concrete floor for dust collection piping and power to the big tools.
10) Don't forget to include several 240v/30a outlets for dust collector and table saw, etc.
11) Do include an HVAC system.
12) Keep the garage part separate from the shop. You don't want winter "stuff" contaminating your shop area and wood.
13) Do lay a 3" plastic electrical conduit between the house and shop for phone lines, intercom, computer connection, and TV coax. (I have two of them which supports my shop, radio room, and 2 car garage.
14) Don't plan on putting your lawn tractor, etc, in the house garage, add a 2 car garage to the shop for the "farm equipment."
15) I put 24"x48" windows up high in the 10 ft wall. Get all the natural light but not the direct sun light.
16) Do use 10 ft high walls.
17) I used french style double doors for a shop entrance. They are Stanley insulated steel, and surely make a difference. On a hot afternoon, you can't stand to put your hand on the outside, but the inside is barely warm. Don't use garage doors unless you get the Overhead Garage Door Co. R17 insulated doors. (We have them in our garages which face south. When it was 109 outside with the sun shining on the doors, it was only 90 in the garage!
18) Put Quad outlets instead of just duplex. Run each duplex in the quad box on a separate circuit. If one breaker pops, you still have power in the other duplex outlet.

My shop, radio room, finishing room, and 2 car garage is over 1400 sq-ft on the slab. Things I would do different:
1) The shop is only 23x24. It should be more like 24x30.
2) The radio room and finishing rooms are only 8x12. Should be at least 10x12.
3) It would be nice to have the garage a little wider and deeper. The F-150 just fits with only about 4 ft in front, and almost nothing at the rear.

These are the things I did last year along with some "do differents." Do it right the first time so that you can spend your time in the shop, not on the shop.

[Bart Leetch]

Put your windows up high on the east & west ends & up high any where else you think you'll need light. Up high enough that no one can see in through them.

[Jerry Solomon]

Matt - I have an older home with a 3-car garage. This area is about 22 ft. deep x 35 ft. wide. In the garage, we store a riding lawn mower, push mower, edger, and one bicycle. We rarely ever put the car in the garage. I essentially use the 2-car side for my shop. In there I have a contractor saw, band saw, planer, jointer, drill press, scroll saw, radial arm saw, BOSS sander, and 1-HP portable dust collector. It is VERY cramped. Unless I move all of the non-woodworking stuff out, it is difficult to work on anything. I'm considering buying a 10x12 pre-fab building to house the lawn equipment. That would make it MUCH better for woodworking. Good luck on your project!

[Matt Meiser]

Thanks everyone. We decided to pass on this particular house becuase of a few issues with the interior layout that we would like to have a little different. We are planning on our next house to last us for a long, long time, and there is nothing wrong with our current house for now so we are going to hold out to get what we want. In the mean time, I can still continue to plan, and you never know when the perfect house will come on the market and I'll be ready to start.

I think I'll save this thread to a file because there is a lot of great advice.