Help!!! Mid-life Crisis to Woodwork or Not to Woodwork

[Ben Roman]

Hello Again,

I have been a member of this board a short time and each post has lead me to a great variety of advise and I need help again. I am 36 years old and I feel like my life is about to get turned upside down again. I have been in the computer industry for 18 years now and have done it all, owned 2 companies, been in every position more than once, made lots of money, made little money, been broke, and been well off. I have been thinking of building custom homes or buying a cabinet business or something like that. I am still very new to woodworking and my enthusiasm is very high but I want to make a change career wise regardless of income and or status, I just want to do this because I enjoy it.

Dazed and Confused,
<O></O>
Ben Roman

[Tyler Howell]

Excuse me I'm feeling ill!!!
Does she have a sister

[Cecil Arnold]

Ben, I really don't want this to sound negative, however the really good combo machine buys come from cab. and furniture businesses that have gone bust. For every Bob Perry, or David Weekly, there are dozens of 5 at a time builders who have been caught out in a housing bubble. Don't you remember Austin in the early 90's?

Having said that, I think there are a number of opportunities and innovative ideas that could be exploited by good products and well focused marketing. I think you might want to look at what CarveWright is doing as an example, and I'm sure there are others. I purposed an idea on a long deleted thread I think would be a winner, but like all things there were opposing attitudes. Would be happy to discuss it with you.

In the long run you will probably do better in IT, especially when it comes to family security, but then there is always that temptation to take a chance.

[Mark Singer]

Excuse me I'm feeling ill!!!
Does she have a sister

Tyler....I like that!

[Tom Spallone]

Being in the computer business myself, my two cents is:

TAKE YOUR PLANE AND RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES UPGRADING EVERY 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!

Want a partner?

[Ben Roman]

Thanks Tom Thats the way I feel.. After Surviving in the IT industry this long anything is possible Right !! Thanks for the positive outlook

Ben

[Bill Simmeth]

Dazed and Confused

Wow! What a problem to have!!

First, get it out of your head that 36 is "mid-life"!!

Second, you mention custom homes or a cabinet shop specifically. They are two totally different animals. What you (as the owner/operator) do everyday in each of those businesses is completely different. Building custom homes involves orchestrating lots of players (permitting, zoning, subs, etc). Cabinet shops usually only have a couple/few hired hands and you're doing a lot of the work yourself. However, what they share is that both of these businesses are learned, not bought into, IMHO.

Sounds like you've had lots of varied experiences so far. I'd think through all of those and determine when you were happiest/most energized. Was it when you were managing others? Or when you worked alone on a project? Translate that into a job related to wood and develop a business plan around that.

Good luck!

[Ben Roman]

Thanks for the Advise Bill, I would have to say that when I managed my own companies I was happiest. Building them from nothing into substancial self sustained entities offered alot of satisfaction !! Also it offered me great satisfaction being a employer offering jobs to people.

Ben

[Peter Gregory]

I rarely post here and I hope this isn't an intrusion. I have started a few software companies myself and have done pretty well. Let me comment about accepting this money and the chances of success.

You MIL from your description here can't lose all of this money and survive can she? No matter what, buying, starting, or running a business of any sort is high risk. Are you ready to BK your MIL, and put huge pressure on your marriage when things start to go badly in your business? I don't think I would go there.

Let's discuss for just a second the economics of any business involving wood here in the US... right, there isn't much money there. The profit margins are way lower than technology companies. Barrier to entry by competitors is nonexistent. There are lots of people who have the skills, equipment, and drive who are going to come and try to eat your lunch by cutting prices. Ever notice how successful software people are buying nice custom furniture for their offices and successful wood business people are wearing tee-shirts, driving old trucks and working really, really hard? --- And then there is China. You understand that they are talking the low-end and driving prices down in all goods of this kind? Where the economics weren't terrible in wood products 10 years ago, China might be enough to kill you without anything else going wrong.

Don't underestimate how much people have been doing woodworking their whole lives know that we don't know, the same way that we know more about computers. I have a buddy who owns a custom cabinet shop and several related side business, it is just scary how much he knows that I don't. From how to lay brick, to using straps to hold a load on a truck bed, to economical design of cabinets. It doesn't matter if you are smarter in most every way, a lifetime of experience is powerful stuff. I would bankrupt his business faster than he would running my current dog.

Once I took a couple of years off from work and built furniture. Running a software company is way more fun to me. There aren't enough hassles in a shop for my taste. Now I build furniture for fun a few hours a week.

Hope this gives you some ideas of what can go wrong. Hopefully it will not stop you from pursuing your dream (is doing a wood business your dream?). Maybe you should go work in a shop for a year and see if you like it? Lot cheaper to learn on someone Else's nickle.

Good luck whatever you decide,
Peter

[Steve Ash]

Ben, this is not meant in a nasty way...but what expierience do you have building custom homes? It isn't something that you just can jump into on a whim. I've been building custom homes for 16 years www.steveashbuilder.com and I often see people that one day want to be a builder (of course Michigan pretty much started giving away builders licenses about 10 years ago) and don't have a clue what they are doing. And shortly they are out of the business. Don't get me wrong, if that is what you choose to do, good luck and I'll give some advice if you ask for it, but building a home for someone is more than likely the biggest expense of their lives...and it needs to be darned near as perfect as it can be. It takes years of working for someone to learn this profession.

Best of luck in what you do Ben.

[Chris Dodge]

Ben,
I am in a similar position except without the MIL with lots of money. I have made a six figure income for about ten years and have tolerated the CEO and the politics of the work place but have not been real happy. I haven't been miserable either though. I have pondered off and on about going into business for myself but have yet to really take the plunge.<O</O
<O</O

What I did was start my custom furniture and cabinet business as a second job. I work a couple of nights a week and all day Saturday. I tell my customers up front what my situation is and that it will take longer to get their cabinet or furniture if they go through me since I don't do it every day. None has dropped me yet. I now get the security of my good job and the satisfaction of building cabinets and furniture for others. I am learning about what it takes to make my business successful and one day, a few years from now, I hope to go full time into woodworking. But there are many things yet to learn before I take that plunge. One of those is how to price my work. I did not make very much money on my first few projects because I did not price them correctly. I have learned how to charge my customers so that I make money but don't scare everyone away. There are some that you want to scare away though. I have learned which customers to keep and which ones I don't want to do business with.
<O</O

I started off by posting an add on Craigslist.com. That got me about four jobs immediately. I then created a website and have had a steady stream of business since then. I have had as many as eight jobs at one time but never fewer than three jobs at any time.

<O</O
If I were to give you any advice I would say, make sure you include your wife on every decision you make. It is imperative that you work as a team to make a decision that will affect both of you for a long time. That way, if you succeed you wife can have the satisfaction of knowing she was a part of it. If you fail then she can't blame you.

[Michael Ballent]

Working in the IT side of the world as well, I can see the temptation to move into WW fulltime. But I would not want to get into it with a family member's money. It's just me, but family and financing generally do not mix well. If your MIL is a concerned about loosing all $600k she may drive you nuts on any decision you make. Unless she got a whole lot more money and $600k is not a lot of money for her... Custom cabinets would be easier to deal with, but if you do not have a lot of WW experience you will be at the mercy of your knowledge and the people that you hire. At a minimum consider working for an existing cabinet shop and see what really goes on int there. Of course you may be just sweeping floors before they let you on any equipment, and then you may end up at a tablesaw for 8 hours ripping plywood (depending on the size of the shop) The larger shops typically have a person at a station and the work moves along to various stations, so the experience you need to get will take time. People willing to drop $20K + on cabinet will expect a lot from you and you may not be able to provide it... and then there are the guys who have been doing this forever and have developed tricks to speed up production (thus lower costs) and undercut your bid. Buyers backout (it's happened to me) and you have wasted time ($$$) following the lead. It's a very tough business, unless you can shoot for the very high end and that is where every guy is gunning for too.

Best of luck on whatever you decide.

[Mike Cutler]

Ben.

Go verryyyy, verrryyy slow on this decision.

In my situaltion there is only my wife and I. If I were to have to go through a rough patch, well we could eat alot of mac and cheese, and top ramen. I could not personally make thet decision for someone else.

While I believe that anyone can be successful, if they are willing to work, and suffer enough. I would pass on this one, and begin a slower approach to developing a business of this type. No way I could risk my MIL's financial future and stability. I'm sorry for that answer.

A long time ago I was given the advice that "friends don't write friends checks, and never borrow money from family" It's worked for me for 47 years.

Good luck with whatever your decision may be.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I worked in IT all of my career. When I got sick of the corporate rat race, I went into the recruiting business (headhunter) and worked for myself, but specializing in what I knew. My advice to you echoes some of what has been said:

1. Be very careful with your MIL's money - it sounds like she needs it to live in her retirement. Investments as we grow older tend to be far more conservative and focused on capital preservation with modest growth.

2. Go to work for someone in the business you choose to try. Learn the business first. If you find you like it and that you can make money at it, then go into it for yourself. Perhaps you can work your way into a partnership or maybe buy the business at a future date with your MIL's money as a start.

3. If your MIL has $600K for you, and apparently more than that for herself, she has more than enough to give to a trusted money manager to look after it for her. Do her a favor and look around for someone that can manage her money wisely. I would focus on a small money management company that works on a fee basis, and is associated with a large brokerage company to process their transactions and keep the books.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

There are people who do fine in the cabinetry / furniture biz - but it doesn't sound like an "investment quality" move using someone elses' money. It's all risk and no certainties.

Thank her, and Take $20-Grand on a 0% interest loan to buy a dream shop, set up in a garage, and see if you can parlay that into any income at all. Meanwhile, find a really good investment counselor for your MIL. That money should be invested in things like Bonds with no more than 20% in other investment securities.

Meanwhile, don't quit your day job. You are already good at it and there's no reason to toss a lifetime's work and effort.