Floor tile Question: What is it?

[Bob Weisner]

Hi:

My house was built around 1870 and the kitchen floor we will be replacing. There is those cheap 12x12 self sticking floor tiles on the kitchen floor right now. Some of the floor tiles broke and part of the underlayment ripped up with the floor tiles. Underneath the plywood underlayment, there is another layer of floor tiles that are 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 squares. They are whiteish in color.

My question is : What are these 8 1/2" x 8 1/2" tile made out of? The 4 tiles that I can see are in suprisingly good shape.


Thanks,

[Don Baer]

I could be wrong but you may not want to know. If there asbestos then you could be opening up a whole world of trouble. Asbestos removal can be very expensive.

[John Branam]

Can you post pictures for us? Hard to tell what it is from your description.

[tod evans]

bob, don may be right......are they about 1/8 thick, tough but breakable, kind of "plastic" looking? if so they very well may be asbestos...02 tod

[Bob Weisner]

just took some pics. will post in a couple of minutes.

[Bob Weisner]

[tod evans]

bob, being as they`re not split from being nailed through it`s unlikely they`re asbestos.....02 tod

[Bob Weisner]

Now how did my dog get into the picture??

[Brian Parker]

Slate??? Its just a thought but when I was at Pitt the Cathedral of Learning had thick slate flooring in the main level.

They could also be asphalt tile. Both are quite 'Durable' as I call it. When I say that it means that they last a long time and ppl replace em cuz they go outa style before they start breaking up...most of the time just my two cents

[Bill Lewis]

Actually, even looking at pictures of the tiles won't tell anyone that there is asbestos in them. Unless you are taking pictures with a microscope. In all likelyhood, they do contain asbestos.

I do not know the laws regarding the removal of products that contain asbestos, though I suspect there is federal state and/or local regulations regarding it. You may be required to have a licensed abatement contractor perform the removal, and then again, you may not.

Personally, I don't hold in high regard the abatement procedures performed for floor tiles that contain asbestos, but they are probably good for contractors who handle this stuff everyday. The abatement process was put in place to protect these guys. It's my opinion that in most cases floor tiles have a very low risk of becoming frangible, contaminating the area and introducing an exposure hazard. Unlike asbestos pipe insulation, tiles contained asbestos to a much lower degree. It's a bit of a misnomer to call them "asbestos tiles" as the asbestos was only used in conjuction with other materials to add strength.

The simplest and cheapest method of dealing with these tiles is through encapsulation, e.g. put another floor over top of them.

Edit: Ok, after seeing the pictures, and reading some of the comments, I still say that there's no way to tell unless you have them tested. Also, linoleum, and asphalt tiles could also have contained asbestos. As I said before, it was an ingredient, not the constituent material.

Nice dog pic!

[Mark Rios]

From what I've gathered from the old timers through the years is that Lino, REAL linoleum, tiles used to contain "some" asbestos. Asbestos was put into everything (not really but alot of stuff) because they thought it was a magic ingredient or something. They liked it for everything.

However, according to some of my recent experiences here in California, the only worry about asbestos is if it's airborn. As long as it stays encapsulated in something it doesn't do anything.I had a lot with a 60 year old duplex on it that I had to remove. I wanted to let the fire department use it for training and finally burn it. Well, in looking into getting permits for the burn, the Air Quality Control Board said that I could but that I would have to have an inspection for asbestos. I knew that it did have asbestos flues, two in each unit, and lino floors so I asked if I had to dispose of those in any special way. Turns out that I could take everything to the dump and just dispose of the debris that way but I would have to pay a $7500 inspection and testing fee before I burned. So, the fire dept. trained but didn't burn and everything went to the dump when everyone was done playing.

I double checked before I actually hauled the debris away and was told again that the concern with any products that contained asbestos was if any dust from those suspect materials got to be airborn. Other than that, it's very stable.

On another old house that was rehabbed, it too had lino tile floors (with a really neato pattern) After checking, we were told that we could leave the old floor down and lay a new subfloor over it or wear respirators (not just dust masks) and pull the floor up and put it into the dumpster.

So, I gather that you would only have to worry about your floor if you plan on putting it into the blender or wood chipper or someplace like that. Here in CA anyway. hth

[Don Baer]

Ok I guess I need to elaborate on what I said. First of all I work with remediation companies and environment engineering companies daily. Although I don't remove esbestos I do provide monitoring equiptment so those who do can do it safely. There are two problems with asbestos removal in floors like this if they contain asbestos.

A. Asbestos is a known carcinigine
B. asbestos dust is usualy between 6-8 microns in size so it will go directly into your lungs if inhailed.

For these reason folks who do the remediation need to wear protective clothing (read level A suits) and they need to use breathing protection. Furthermore while they are working the area must be isolated so the particles can be isolated and then they use huge Negetive are machines with filters to trap all airborn particles. Lastly they need to monitor the exterier to ensure nothing is escaping. All of this is expensive.

The other problem is disposal of the material once it has been removed. There are heavy fines for dumping that stuff in a landfill.

Thats why I said "you may not want to know"

Like Bill said If it were me I'd seal it over and just put your new floor on top and you'll never have a problem.

[Bob Weisner]

Thanks for all the replys!

I have the new ceramic tile to put down for a new floor. Should I rip up the cheap 12x12 tiles that are on top of the old underlayment and then put the ceramic tiles down, or should I rip up the old wood underlayment too?

Thanks,

[tod evans]

bob, don`t lay ceramic tile on plywood, you should install concrete board or the new plastic barrier that isolates the tile, i don`t remember the name of the product? either way floor height will be the determining factor as to what goes or stays. for 5/16 tile board, thinset and tile figure around 3/4 inch in thickness then remove enough flooring to bring your new floor flush with the adjacent rooms...02 tod

[Mark Rios]

Don, I see that you are here in CA (some of the time anyway ) from your personal info so let me ask you, if I may. So how come the San Juaquin Air Quaility Control people told me twice that I could put the floor material in the dumpster? Could you tell me who I might talk to up in this area, then? I was referred to the SJAQC people by the fire department so I thought that they would be an authority.