Tablesaw Advice Request: Laguna vs. Minimax vs. Hammer

[Paul B. Cresti]

Chris,
I am not about to drag everyone into my past long winded experiences with certain companies and why I feel the way I do...after all it is my opinion and you do not have to like. As far as my opinion on MM....well it is not based upon one machine or one experience. I have owned and currently own many of their machines. I have dealt with them a lot on different types of service issues as I adjusted machines, added to them or needed to change something. I rely on these machines for a portion of my income so I need them to perform and they do. That is the reason why I have many MM machines. I am happy you are happy lets all be happy together ...the flowers bloom in spring, tra la

[Cecil Arnold]

Chris, I do not mean this as a bash of Laguna, however when I was considering a BS purchase I looked at both (got the videos and literature) and very nearly bought a Laguna. I did, however, visit their web site and saw a number of owners, on the company web, with some very negative things to say about CS. I made some private inquiries of Laguna owners who I could find--those who had stated problems--because it is often easier to get a candid opinion privately than publicly. While the heat of their anger had cooled somewhat, and their feeling was the machine was good, they still had a bad taste in their dealings with the company. Based on this limited research and reading, again on the Laguna web site, I chose to spend my $$ with MM, even though I had to pay sales tax (6.25%) as MM is a Texas company. My dealing with Laguna left me with the feeling that they were more attuned to sales, with a touch of high pressure, than their competitor. Since then, Laguna has started offering Baldor Motors (at the time the motors were made in Bulgaria I think) and having examined both saws at WW shows my feeling is that both machines are of good quality. My feeling is that Laguna must have gotten its act together in the intervening three years since I tried to deal with them. So, objectively, three years ago there were a number of unhappy Laguna (band saw) customers

[Chris Barton]

Chris,
I am not about to drag everyone into my past long winded experiences with certain companies and why I feel the way I do...

Why not Paul? That's what Ben is asking for. Otherwise, it's just an opinion and you know what they say about those...

[Chris Barton]

Chris, I do not mean this as a bash of Laguna, however when I was considering a BS purchase I looked at both (got the videos and literature) and very nearly bought a Laguna. I did, however, visit their web site and saw a number of owners, on the company web, with some very negative things to say about CS. I made some private inquiries of Laguna owners who I could find--those who had stated problems--because it is often easier to get a candid opinion privately than publicly. While the heat of their anger had cooled somewhat, and their feeling was the machine was good, they still had a bad taste in their dealings with the company. Based on this limited research and reading, again on the Laguna web site, I chose to spend my $$ with MM, even though I had to pay sales tax (6.25%) as MM is a Texas company. My dealing with Laguna left me with the feeling that they were more attuned to sales, with a touch of high pressure, than their competitor. Since then, Laguna has started offering Baldor Motors (at the time the motors were made in Bulgaria I think) and having examined both saws at WW shows my feeling is that both machines are of good quality. My feeling is that Laguna must have gotten its act together in the intervening three years since I tried to deal with them. So, objectively, three years ago there were a number of unhappy Laguna (band saw) customers

Fair enough! I have no issues whit your choices Cecil and I think MMs are good machines. However, there are certain vendors that just seem to be in some peoples "crosshairs" no matter what they do. Laguna seems to be one of those from what I see. I have yet to see a negative firsthand experience posted about them on SMC.

[lou sansone]

IRT Laguna saws Chris poses a fair question. I suppose someone could start a thread that was titled "bad experiences with Laguna". That would be somewhat out of character with SMC. I used to own a Laguna LT-24 band saw. It was a decent saw.


So did I have any negatives about them? There was one problem with the saw, namely a lower guide that burned up for no apparent reason. They basically refused to hear my case. I ended up having to either buy a new one that was really pretty pricey ( I could be wrong, but I seem to remember ~ 50 to 70 $). Fortunately another creeker had one because he swapped out the whole guide system for ceramic guides. I believe he gave the the lower guide to me.

Some folks just love to gripe, and I understand that. But the times I have been on the Laguna web site, there seems to have been quite a bit of dissatisfaction about something. Being an engineer who has designed and actually built ( I wear jeans and t- shirts to work ) machines for many years, my opinion on the general line of ACM/ Laguna saws is that they are decent machines. Sometimes it is a problem with the machine design, sometimes it is with the manufacturing process / QC and sometimes it is a problem with service after the sale. Each of those are real factors that need to be taken in total when looking at machines.

lou

[tod evans]

ben, i went with minimax equipment for a couple of reasons, the first being their parent company, scmi. over the years i`ve had occasion to run scmi equipment hard and it holds up year after year. second i`d also run a couple pieces of minimax equipment years back and although at the time somewhat cruder in execution than the scmi stuff still able to be thrashed in a production enviornment. today minimax has focused their marketing on the small production shop and the high end one man bands.....i think they offer by far the best bang for the buck in both of these markets and have spent my money accordingly with no regrets. once again read,talk, and most importantly drive the equipment before you buy anything! i would suggest that at this pricepoint you avoid the offerings from both taiwan and china but that`s my opinion.....02 tod

[Frank Pellow]

OK, so I am posting this in defense of the Laguna folks and more specifically the Robland machines. I have heard enough of the people that say that "they have heard about poor service" from Laguna and they have "heard" about this or that. Where is the evidence? When I made the decission to buy a combo machine I posted to SMC looking for advice and I got plenty of Laguna bashing. But, I got zero evidence of anyone having firsthand experience with Laguna providing poor service or that the equipment was sub par. I am seeing more of it in this thread. So, if you have the experience to back up you claims, lay it out and I am not talking about what happened to a friend of a friend 20 years ago. I have never said a single bad word about MM so, why is it that some folks seem to think it's fair play to bash a company without firsthand knowledge of the product or the service? I have an X31 that works great and does everything I expected it to do for many thousands less than the closest competitor. My bandsaw came perfect from the vendor so, I didn't have to find out how good their service was. Let's be adults and deal with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and not inuendo...

I am one oif the people who decided against Laguna partly based on the fact that I had heard about poor service and that I had heard about set-up difficulties with both the Laguna table saw and with the Robland combo machine. I heard about these mostly by reading the user comments, questions, and responses and one source of these was the Laguna web site.

So, even though I have had not direct problems with Laguna, the statement
"I have heard about poor service from Laguna" is correct, and I feal quite justified in making that statement.

[Steve Cox]

Okay, here's my experience. I own an Laguna LT16. I bought it a woodworking show. I was fairly new to woodworking, had never heard of Minimax, Agazzani or any other saw. I bought it based on reviews and opinions in the WW magazines at the time. I have since had the opportunity to use many other bandsaws both "old iron" and newer saws. After all that, the Laguna is "OK". The original guides were junk. The newer ceramic guides make it a much better saw. I was so frustrated with the old guides I was almost ready to toss the saw and then decided to take a flyer on the new ones. I never went to the company for help with this. Why? Because every time I talk with somebody from the company I feel like I've gone to a used car lot to buy a red truck and they're trying to get me to buy a white station wagon. It just feels slimy. It's high pressure and I don't like it. I'm not going to bash their equipment, it seems pretty good, not necessarily the best but also far from the worst. The WW show will be here in a couple of weeks and I am in the market for either a sliding TS or a combo. Minimax and Laguna will both be there. I'll be at the Laguna booth looking at their machine. But it is in spite of my experience with the company not because of it.

[Chris Barton]

Lou and Steve,

Your posts are great. I don't specifically have an issue with people posting negative experiences with Laguna, they can happen with any company. You posted what happened in your situations and I believe they will help others make their decissions in an informed way.

Frank,

I understand your feelings. I have to say that I delt with Frank Peel at Laguna when I bought my X31 and LT16HD. He was very cordial and didn't pressure me in any way. Did I get some kind of discount of the advertised sale price they had for the two units together? Nope, but they were generous about including some nice little extras. I had a glich with the mag starter of the X31 and they flew a technician to Nashville to fix it no charge under warranty. Aside from that, everything has been perfect. But, that may not be everybodies experience. Had I relied entirely upon what I had heard about the company on this forum I would never considered these machines. But, I found some great forums via the internet that gave me a much broader idea of the machines and the company.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Why not Paul? That's what Ben is asking for. Otherwise, it's just an opinion and you know what they say about those...

Sorry Chris, if someone wants my opinion, thats what they get. It is my opinion so agree with it or not. Everyone of us gives "our opinion" including the so called "experts" that the public seems to feel differently of. We are all "experts" in our own areas and in the end a decision needs to be made by our own choosing. To me the only one whom is a true expert is God (whatever form you decide to believe in or not). I will not go into any sort of details with my past/present experiences....I will only give my broad view. If someone wants a more detailed view PM or email me or check out my past postings. Like I said I feel the way I do about MM because I have reason to.

[Ken Styer]

I don't own their table saw but I bought a MM bandsaw 2 years ago. To this day I still receive e-mails from MM asking how everything is going. I believe the customer service from MM is excellent.

[Chris Barton]

Sorry Chris, if someone wants my opinion, thats what they get. It is my opinion so agree with it or not. Everyone of us gives "our opinion" including the so called "experts" that the public seems to feel differently of. We are all "experts" in our own areas and in the end a decision needs to be made by our own choosing. To me the only one whom is a true expert is God (whatever form you decide to believe in or not). I will not go into any sort of details with my past/present experiences....I will only give my broad view. If someone wants a more detailed view PM or email me or check out my past postings. Like I said I feel the way I do about MM because I have reason to.

No Problem Paul,

We can agree to disagree about this one...

[Thom Scott]

I went through a similar decision recently. I looked at all the options including the Grizzly and decided on a Hammer B3 with the shaper. This does have dado capability which is something I wanted badly. I had a friend that decided on the Grizzly and was very dissapointed with the quality. There was a problem with the ability to get the blade to 90 degrees. He ended up getting the same saw as me. I have a Laguna bandsaw which is ok. I have a Mini Max FS41 Elite S jointer planer which is a very nice machine. I went with the Hammer because of the shaper feature and the longer slider. I have limited space and this machine made alot of sense.I like using a slider so much I have bought a full sized Felder KF700 s professional. My saw is for sale on this forum. I have had positive support from both Hammer and Mini Max. The rearward tilting shaper on the Hammer made more sense to me than the Mini Max which tilts forward.

[Tom Cowie]

Lou and Steve,

Your posts are great. I don't specifically have an issue with people posting negative experiences with Laguna, they can happen with any company. You posted what happened in your situations and I believe they will help others make their decisions in an informed way.

Frank,

I understand your feelings. I have to say that I delt with Frank Peel at Laguna when I bought my X31 and LT16HD. He was very cordial and didn't pressure me in any way. Did I get some kind of discount of the advertised sale price they had for the two units together? Nope, but they were generous about including some nice little extras. I had a glich with the mag starter of the X31 and they flew a technician to Nashville to fix it no charge under warranty. Aside from that, everything has been perfect. But, that may not be everybodies experience. Had I relied entirely upon what I had heard about the company on this forum I would never considered these machines. But, I found some great forums via the internet that gave me a much broader idea of the machines and the company.

Hi Chris

I didn't see this thread until tonight. I am on your side of this one.

To all who own MM or others.... great machines , glad you you like them but for me I'll stay with my LT-20 Laguna and be quite satisfied.

I have dealt with several from Laguna in sales and service and have been treated quite well. so would I buy from them again? you bet I would!!

Be careful what you you take as gospel on the Laguna message board. It's a well known place to cast for TROLLS.

My advice to anyone is to try and get to a woodworking show that is displaying the machines that you are interested in . It helped me a lot .

I also bought Laguna based on three other woodworkers who let me try their machines. The TSS is one sweet machine!!

To each his own guy's that's what makes the world go around

Tom

[Ted Miller]

I had my first Laguna TS in '93 now I am on my second TS since '02, I wanted scoring. I purchased both saws second hand and had only a few problems with either one and Laguna treated me right. I have made inquiries to CS and they call me back that day or the next day. The day I put my second TS in my shop I had a few questions with the scoring and table alignment and I had one e-mail and two phone calls from the CS department in two days. I went to the facility for some parts since I work 5 miles away and they were all great to me. Rick took me back to show me where all the machines and parts are located and never tried to sell me a thing and even gave me deals on what I purchased. I have never had a single negative experience with anyone at Laguna. I am good freinds with a cabinet shop owner in Stanton and he only uses Laguna products due to one thing, customer support. He just purchased the Z3200 and its awesome. He also has a LT18 that he may sell to me since he is moving up to the LT28.

I bought a 12" jointer pkg from Wilke and did not get a response after a few e-mails to the sales rep after I had a small problem with an accessory. But things happen and since I have only delt with Wilke once I can say there CS is not good.

You will find god and bad experiences with any vendor.I here bad things about Grizzly all the time and their CS but I own one of their tools with zero problems. Since I have had no dealings with their CS I can say the company is great...