RO/Palm sanders...the real skinny?

[Mark Rios]

Can someone give a non-judgemental, quantifiable expalnation (if one exists) on why Festool sanders may be better than other sanders of the same type?

OTHER THAN dust collection, does a Festool sander actually sand better? Does it make the material smoother than another sander with the same grit?

If there are answers, please make them physical, tangible, and quantifiable (as opposed to emotional) so that we can avoid opinion/feelings wars.

I notice that alot of the posts that mention Festool sanders often refer to the round pad sanders, i.e. 150, 125, etc. I have a round pad sander and a 1/4 sheet sander. I find that I use the 1/4 sheet more. I don't have to hand sand in the corners and the paper seems to be cheaper than buying premade discs. However, my round pad sander is also taller and therefore it seems that it requires a little more attention to keep flat, thereby causing me to simply like the feel of sanding with the 1/4 sheet better.

My 1/4 sheet sander is getting a little tired. It has seen considrable use and it has served me well but I'm starting to look at replacing it. I was literally raised in a body shop and wearing dust masks and respirators is second nature to me so dust collection, from sanding, isn't a real issue for me.

So...... why/how would one look at and compare the Festool brand of sanders to another quality sander?

[Jim DeLaney]

I upgraded from a PC 333 to the Festool ES125 ROS a few years ago. Nearly no comparison between the two.

The Festool seems more aggressive (subjective opinion). The Festool has way better dust collection, and most importantly to me, way less vibration. I found that I could sand about twice as long, without arm/wrist fatigue, with the Festool than with the PC.

A couple months ago, I was able to try out a Festool Rotax sander at WoodWerks in Columbus. Very impressive! I'm saving my pennies toward that, now...

[Steve Clardy]

Festoo 150/3
Almost no noticable vibration. Very easy on these old hands, arms.
Very different animal compared to my PC, Makita ROS sanders.

[Jamie Buxton]

Palm sanders are usually orbital, but not random-orbit. Sanders with round sandpaper are usually random-orbit. The benefit of the randomness is that you're less likely to see random scratches. The benefit of rectangular sanders is that you can get into corners where a round one won't fit. Me, I use a random-orbit for most stuff, and a palm sander occasionally for corners.

As to the pros and cons of Festool, I think I'll stay out of that one.

[Ian Barley]

I have a 150/5 ad a Metabo SXE450 (sold in the US with Ridgid colours). They both do a very similar job in a very similar amount of time. The Festool just feels like it is doing a better job quicker because it is Soooooo much more pleasant to use. I barely use the Metabo, not because it is worse, but because it seems worse. If you spend a big chunk of any day sanding then get a Festool 'cos it makes life more pleasant.

[Jim Becker]

Aside from the excellent dust collection, it was the nearly total lack of vibration that sold me on Festool sanders. When I was using the PC333 sanders, I had to stop using them after a very short period of time due to numbness in my hand. With the Festool sanders, I can work for hours with no tingling or numbness.

[Keith Barkhau]

As with the others, I was sold on the dust collection (which I know you're aware of) and the lack of vibration. I have previously used the pc333 and the Metabo 450 and have swapped both of them for the Festool 125 and Rotex. In both cases there is to me a *noticable* improvement in the amount of vibration, especially between the Metabo and the Rotex. Can I quantify this. Nope. Don't have the tools, don't have the time.

Why the difference--I can offer two suggestions. One possibility is better machining, tighter tolerances and more controlled assembly yielding a better balanced sander. Possibility two, since I paid twice (or more) as much for the Festool I am unconsciously justifying this purchase by convincing myself its superior through the well known psychological principal of cognitive dissonance reduction.

Either way, my hands feel better after a couple of hours of sanding. As far as the actual sanded surface, I don't think it actually creates a smoother surface, but does make the process less painful/unpleasant for me.

[Dave Falkenstein]

If there are answers, please make them physical, tangible, and quantifiable...

My prior experience with ROS was using PC and Dewalt 5" ROS for a lot of years. I now own the old sanders, which I NEVER use, and a Festool ETS150/3, a Rotex 150 and a DS400 detail sander. Based on my home shop experience:

Festool sanders do a far better job of dust control. Festool sanders are smoother operating with very little vibration. Sandpaper lasts noticeably longer using the Festool sanders. The sanding seems to go a lot faster, and I feel I get better results at a lower grit.

Is that answer physical, tangible and/or quantifiable? Got me, but it sure makes a lot of sense to me to use Festool sanders.

[Mark Rios]

Well, that's kinda what I was looking for, thanks very much.

So there's not really difference in sanding but 6 out of 7 of you (so far) responded with the "less vibration" theme. Hmmm....very interesting. I can relate to the vibrations thing even though that's all I've known; after a while of sanding the hands start to hurt.

I'll assume that the Festool tools/machines are going to last longer (i.e. bearings, races, motors, etc) due to being made to higher quality standards.(?) Any comments?

My round pad sander is fairly new but my 1/4 sheet sander is at least 7 years old. I've replaced the platen/sanding pad once, about 3 months ago, and the bag on the back can't hold any more duct tape and the dust spews out the back through numerous holes in the fabric. It seems to sand just fine and produces results that are expected with no suprises or questions. But I don't know how much longer the bearings will last. The switch is showing signs of having a little dust inside. It tends to turn off and on with varying levels of force on the switch.

I look forward to reading more replies.

[Lee DeRaud]

...like anybody expected anything else from me...

So there's not really difference in sanding but 6 out of 7 of you (so far) responded with the "less vibration" theme. Hmmm....very interesting. I can relate to the vibrations thing even though that's all I've known; after a while of sanding the hands start to hurt.

Just seems like you can buy a lot of padded gloves for the price difference of a Festool sander.

With the Festool sanders, I can work for hours with no tingling or numbness.

See above, but I'll admit I don't do (and don't want to do) the kinds of projects that require hours of sanding.

I'll assume that the Festool tools/machines are going to last longer (i.e. bearings, races, motors, etc) due to being made to higher quality standards.(?) Any comments?

Again, file that under "things that matter to a pro". Does it really matter in a home/hobby environment if a $100 sander needs replacing every couple of years? I know all the arguments for "buy the best you can afford", but a ROS doesn't quite fall into the category of "heirloom tool".

The Festool sander is probably worth every nickel they're charging for it, if that's what you need to get the job done. If you don't, there's a lot of other things that can be done with that money.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I think the PC and the FesterTool are about on a par with the FesterTool having a slightly better DC on board.


It is error to simply assume that FesterTool prices so high just because they are so much better than everything else. While it is true that FesterTool makes excellent tools the same can be said of PC and Bosch and a couple others. It's simply true that in Germany (all Europe actually) the cost of having an employee in a industrial manufacturing setting is very , very, very expensive. They get paid very well, get a month or more off a year, have 100% medical & dental & Optometric coverage, get transportatin allowances, and all manner of other bennies including stunningly good unemployment insurance. The aggregate effect of all the costs hidden and otherwise is substantially higher end product prices.

So, one of the things you are paying for when you buy European is the lifestyle of the laborer's utopia.

That said one of the things they must do to compete is make good products. After all they have high cost built in comming out of the gate and for no good reason. ERGO they gotta put value in or they are going to be unable to compete.

So will you hate yourself for paying the huge premium of a FesterTool? No, you will like the tool I guarantee it. However, you could have a PC sander that will perform about as well and have enough money left over to do something else. Maybe not enough to go Paraguay for a month and go Deep Sea Fishing but you get my drift.

Another consideration is how it'll feel to drop the sander in a way that breaks it, it gets lost, or stolen. The purchase price may influence how big a blue streak you curse.

[Mark Rios]

Another consideration is how it'll feel to drop the sander in a way that breaks it, it gets lost, or stolen. The purchase price may influence how big a blue streak you curse.

Yeah, that's something I've thought about as well. I've watched my 1/4 sheet sander bounce off the floor a couple of times. Fortunately, It hasn't landed on the platen thereby bending it but I wince really, really hard. It's still sanding flat though.

I've just finished a cabinet job across the street from where I live and when I had to take my sander over there for some touch up I thought about having to drag a DC vac along as well. I don't think I'd really like it. I'm very careful with my tools (I never loan them) and I try to take very good care of them but things happen and I think that I would rather replace an $80 sander than a $250 plus sander.

I'm just not seeing an advantage for me right now, other than the vibration issue (still mulling that one over), to justify the expense.

Hmmmmmm............

[Jim Becker]

Lee, I was using the gel-filled gloves with the PC sanders but still had problems with numbing and tingling after only about a half-hour of work. I don't need the gloves with the Festool even after a couple hours of sanding...my armoire project was a good example of that.

[Ian Barley]

I think the PC and the Festool are about on a par with the Festool having a slightly better DC on board.


It is error to simply assume that Festool prices so high just because they are so much better than everything else. While it is true that Festool makes excellent tools the same can be said of PC and Bosch and a couple others. It's simply true that in Germany (all Europe actually) the cost of having an employee in a industrial manufacturing setting is very , very, very expensive. They get paid very well, get a month or more off a year, have 100% medical & dental & Optometric coverage, get transportatin allowances, and all manner of other bennies including stunningly good unemployment insurance. The aggregate effect of all the costs hidden and otherwise is substantially higher end product prices.

So, one of the things you are paying for when you buy European is the lifestyle of the laborer's utopia.

Cliff - your summary of the position is about as accurate as my teenage assumption that all Americans looked like Rock Hudson, were married to Doris Day and had 2 swimming pools in their back gardens. Yes the political systems are different but intrinsic differences in cost base have as much to do with the differential cost of real estate as with any of the factors that you propound.

Most European societies do have a social medical policy, Some national some regional. I get full medical cover as part of my tax package. I get 20% of dental covered - I pay the other 80%. I get no cover for opticians - if I need specs I pay for the specs and the tests. This is not the case for kids but everybody else pays. I know of nobody, in my 30 years of working, who gets a "transportation allowance" beyond a low interest loan for a train season ticket. If I am unemployed I get the equivalent of about $60/week as part of social security benefits. There are lots of factors at play in pricing between relative economies. I have no intention of stirring a political debate but neither does a one sided rhetorical outburst seem to fit in the sprit of this forum or the content of this thread.

[Ian Barley]

Yeah, that's something I've thought about as well. I've watched my 1/4 sheet sander bounce off the floor a couple of times. Fortunately, It hasn't landed on the platen thereby bending it but I wince really, really hard. It's still sanding flat though.

I've just finished a cabinet job across the street from where I live and when I had to take my sander over there for some touch up I thought about having to drag a DC vac along as well. I don't think I'd really like it. I'm very careful with my tools (I never loan them) and I try to take very good care of them but things happen and I think that I would rather replace an $80 sander than a $250 plus sander.

I'm just not seeing an advantage for me right now, other than the vibration issue (still mulling that one over), to justify the expense.

Hmmmmmm............

I have dropped my 150/5 lots of times (way too often for my nerves). 3-4ft drop onto concrete. Bounces every time. Not recommending it but not losing sleep over it either.

My honest summary. If you spen more than 10 hours in a week or 2 hours in any one day sanding then the vibration clinches it. If not then you have to be a keen hobbyist with a desire for comfort to make the cost worthwhile.