Hybrid vehicle???

[Mark Pruitt]

Gasoline prices being what they are, I'm driving less and am starting to think in terms of hybrid vehicles. Anyone have comments on these? Do they really deliver as claimed? Most importantly, is anyone making a hybrid truck that's worth considering?

[Mark Rios]

Mark, Chevy makes a hybrid version of their Sierra pick up. However, the extra cost of the hybrid version of any vehicle taks a long time to recover. Especially in a truck, the extra mileage just doesn't allow a person to see a great difference in the short term.

Chevy's hybrid Sierra isn't really a "true" hybrid from what I read. Here is a blurb about it:

GM launched a hybrid version of the Silverado/Sierra in 2005. It is a mild hybrid design, with the electric motor serving only power accessories and the system also automatically shuts down when the truck brakes below 13 mph, and uses electric power to restart it. It uses three extra 14 V batteries mounted under the rear seats to store power. The truck uses an 5.3 L Vortec 5300 V8 for primary power.

The truck features four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets mounted in the bed. These are particularly interesting to the building/construction contractor market, since they often require AC power when on the job. Additionally, the extra reserves of power for the accessories make this truck well-suited to that market, where trucks often sit at idle for hours at a time.
Availability was extremely limited at first, with commercial buyers getting the first allotment. Later in 2005, the truck was offered at retail in Alaska, California, Florida, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. Finally, for 2006, the truck was generally available to retail buyers in all US states.

Here is another link:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...03/147374.html

The savings from a hybrid come from town-type/stop and go driving. The claim is a 10% increase in fuel mileage (we alll know that the claimed mileage only works at the factory with the wind blowing in the right direction ). Highway mileage in this truck won't really change because the engine never shuts down. Maintenance costs will be higher than a conventional engine as well.

I also read that Hummer has a hydrogen test vehicle out. Talk about taking along time to recover extra cost.

[Dennis Peacock]

I know 4 people that have a hybrid of some kind. 3 don't like them because the fuel savings for them isn't enough to really offset the added expense of buying the hybrid and one person likes it...because he saw 35 MPG on a cross state trip via interstate.

I vote for horse and buddy.

[Jim Becker]

We have two hybrids...a 2002 Prius and a 2006 Highlander Hybrid Limited. Highly recommended. I'm getting about 26 mpg overall on the Highlander...and that's really nice for a mid-sized SUV. And--it has more horsepower than the "regular" one. We get between 45 and 50 mpg with the Prius and the current model gets more.

That said, what Dennis says is true, fuel payback is variable depending on the cost of fuel. However, the new IRS credit is helpful in that regard...buy soon as it's limited to the first 60K vehicles from any one manufacturer. I didn't buy the Highlander expecting to recover the extra cost...the day-to-day fuel savings is nice, but I also like the environmental aspects of it. We did more than recover the increased cost on the Prius...

If you have any specific questions about either of these two vehicles, feel free to ask. I'd buy another hybrid for the next vehicle, too...'just because.

And relative to the GM offerings that Mark mentions...they are a joke, IMHO. Only the current offerings from Toyota, Honda and Ford really exploit hybrid technology for significant fuel savings, and even they don't make the mark when it comes to balancing fuel cost vs increased vehicle cost. The industry critics agree with my opinion on this.

[Ian Barley]

...because he saw 35 MPG on a cross state trip via interstate.

I am sure that I am missing something here but I get 40+ mpg out of my completely unaerodynamic slab of diesel van? I know that our gallons are a little bit bigger than yours but it still doesn't look like a great advantage to me?

[Joe Pelonio]

I've looked into it too, and have several customers driving them. Most are happy with it and seem to be looking at it more as "doing their duty for the earth" rather than cost savings. They are finding that with the added cost they may not get a payback until after the batteries are toast, and somewhat scared about what replacements might cost.

[Curt Fuller]

From what I understand, the benefits of the hybrids depend on the type of driving you commonly do. City type stop and go uses more of the electrical side while highway cruising uses mostly the gasoline/diesel side. But I believe the biggest advantage is in the emissions reduction.

Also, I listened to a radio program the other day about the use of ethanol fuels that GM is promoting. They said that it used more oil based energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it saves. But it could eventually reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

But it's good that there is finally getting to be some serious research work in replacing oil as the standard.

[Frank Fusco]

We have two hybrids...a 2002 Prius and a 2006 Highlander Hybrid Limited. Highly recommended. I'm getting about 26 mpg overall on the Highlander...and that's really nice for a mid-sized SUV. And--it has more horsepower than the "regular" one. We get between 45 and 50 mpg with the Prius and the current model gets more.

That said, what Dennis says is true, fuel payback is variable depending on the cost of fuel. However, the new IRS credit is helpful in that regard...buy soon as it's limited to the first 60K vehicles from any one manufacturer. I didn't buy the Highlander expecting to recover the extra cost...the day-to-day fuel savings is nice, but I also like the environmental aspects of it. We did more than recover the increased cost on the Prius...

If you have any specific questions about either of these two vehicles, feel free to ask. I'd buy another hybrid for the next vehicle, too...'just because.

And relative to the GM offerings that Mark mentions...they are a joke, IMHO. Only the current offerings from Toyota, Honda and Ford really exploit hybrid technology for significant fuel savings, and even they don't make the mark when it comes to balancing fuel cost vs increased vehicle cost. The industry critics agree with my opinion on this.

My son also has a Prius (I believe a 2004 model) and a new Highlander. He gets about 26mpg with the Highlander and claims over 60 with the Prius. I doubt he would ever admit getting less. He also won't admit the Toyota hybrids have a cult following but he spends almost every waking hour on the Prius internet discussion forum. I'm sure though he would ditto everything you said. Well worth the investment. For me, though, where we live there is no Toyota dealer for almost three hours drive away. I am reluctant to get a vehicle that cannot be serviced locally.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Mark,

If you drive short distances at a slow to moderate speed a highbird might work out for you. If you live where you regularly drive on the highway go with a VW turbo diesel. I have a 2005 Jetta Wagon and average around 43 MPG. If it is all short trips 6 miles or less it may drop to 38 all highway I get 47. You can fit 3/4 X 12X 96 shelving in it. I regularly load it with my CMS mounted to the Ridgid MSUV, my Smart table and rails from Dino and assorted hand tools when I need to do work in Pittsburgh. The 3'X5' cement board is the biggest sheet goods you can fit in it. There will be a trailer hitch on mine soon. Lots of power and fun to drive!

On the green side VA is warm enough most of the year to run biodiesel up to B100 (straight bio, no modification needed) if you want or a straight vegie oil system (SVO requires modification).

The best site on the web for info on the TDI is Fred's TDI page http://www.tdiclub.com/

The people are friendly and knowledgeable like here. Also feel free to contact me with questions.

[Bart Leetch]

So using 28 MPG as a base & figuring top MPG an a small Hybrid of 50 MPG = 78% better MPG & the fuel has gone up here 51% since last August figure in the cost of the Hybrid in monthly payments & insurance etc. With the high cost of purchasing any new car today I wonder at 12000 miles a year how many years you'd have to drive the car to recover the cost. would the car last long enough to recover the cost.

I think I'll keep my little $1000 1994 S10 that I just bought. It seemed to get around 20 MPG on a short trip we just made. I'll know as soon as we make our next trip which will be 370 miles.

[Erin Raasch]

My son also has a Prius (I believe a 2004 model) and a new Highlander. He gets about 26mpg with the Highlander and claims over 60 with the Prius. I doubt he would ever admit getting less. He also won't admit the Toyota hybrids have a cult following but he spends almost every waking hour on the Prius internet discussion forum. I'm sure though he would ditto everything you said. Well worth the investment. For me, though, where we live there is no Toyota dealer for almost three hours drive away. I am reluctant to get a vehicle that cannot be serviced locally.

Frank,

I had to chuckle at this - I spend some time on the Prius forum myself, noticed the names, and wondered if there was any connection there. Small world, I guess!

Anyway, I bought a 2005 Prius back in October of last year. With winter driving conditions, my mileage dropped down to about 46-48 mpg. Now that the weather has warmed up, it's been up to around 52-53 mpg. My driving is a mix of city and highway driving, probably about 3/4 highway.

We just returned from our trip to La Crosse, which is about 110 miles from here. Before we left, I checked the tire pressure and inflated them to 40 front and 38 rear (had been at 32/30). I filled up the gas tank a little ways outside of La Crosse on the way back, and as we pulled into the driveway, I was at 59.7 mpg after 91 miles.

The terrain on this drive is mostly rolling hills, and there were several small towns along the way where I slowed down to 30 mph; otherwise my speed was between 55-60.

I don't want to make a Prius love fest out of this, but the Prius can get darn good gas mileage, depending on how it's driven. As far as the cost/benefit analysis, it's very, very difficult to determine, at least with the Prius, just what the "hybrid premium" cost is. There is no non-hybrid production vehicle that compares on an apples-to-apples basis with the Prius, and the stock Prius comes equipped with several options that are typically found on higher-end vehicles. If you were to compare the Prius with a similarly-equipped Camry, there is very little price difference.

I am really enjoying my Prius. It's not a lumber hauler, and it won't suit everyone's needs, but I think it's got a lot going for it. I haven't tried to fit a full sheet of plywood in the cargo area, but I hauled home my big green HF lathe in the back with room to spare.

One of my favorite things is that I never have to fumble with keys. I carry a little transponder in my purse, and as I approach the driver's side door, the car unlocks for me. I get in, push a button, and I'm ready to go!

Scott calls it my alien car.

Erin

[Bart Leetch]

"I vote for horse and buddy."

Sooo Dennis does your buddy ride the horse or does he get drug along behind it?

[Jim Becker]

Anyway, I bought a 2005 Prius back in October of last year. With winter driving conditions, my mileage dropped down to about 46-48 mpg. Now that the weather has warmed up, it's been up to around 52-53 mpg.

Thanks for bringing this up. The mileage does vary with the seasons/temps; partially due to the design of the pressurized fuel system and defroster/AC usage. (The pressurized system affects the electronic mileage number more than the "real" mileage number, BTW) Alison's 2002 Prius averages around 48 mpg during the warm months (not a lot of stop and go where the electric would have more advantage) but can drop as low as 36-38 during the winter when there is heavy defroster use. Nature of the beast.

My Highlander mileage is climbing, both due to the warmer weather and getting through the "break in" period...I'm just shy of 5K miles now. I don't expect it to get beyond about 27-28 mpg, as I also don't do a lot of stop and go...runs to the airport are at about 65-70 mph. But my local driving at about 45 mph definitely registers with better mileage performance! If this was the regular version of the vehicle, I would likely be getting about 18-19 mpg "for real"...(I do check it via math and not just depend upon the vehicle computer)

[Jim O'Dell]

From what I can tell on the Ford/Mercury Hybrid, the real fuel savings would come from in town driving. Cooler climate would be a plus also. I don't think the people in Texas would appreciate pulling up to a long traffic light and it start blowing hot air! If you have the Ford/Mercury unit on Max A/C, then the engine is running, thus you lose the fuel savings. I'm guessing the others are the same. I had to certify on the F/M hybrid so that my dealership could certify and be able to sell them, as did the other advisor, shop foreman, manager, and 2 techs. (the really interesting thing from a dealer employee standpoint is the sheppard's hook to safely pull a tech that gets electrocuted to safety!!! [I KID YOU NOT] ) Our dealership hasn't even ordered one yet!! Jim.

[Pete Simmons]

"doing their duty for the earth" rather than cost savings.


I know these cars do not recharge from the grid but-

Not sure this is a good a deal as some think.

If every auto was suddenly made all electric:

1. Think about the chemical mess all the batteries would make. Like old tires the used batteries end up somewhere.

2. Charging batteries from the grid - Every time you make a converision there is loss and the power needs to be genereted somewhere. I wonder how many units of power need to be generated at the power utility level to equal 1 unit of power at the wheel? I bet it is a lot!

3.Battery power sure seems clean until you follow all the different requirments all the way back to their source. Looking at all the items this clean power uses might disappoint many in how dirty it really is.