Is the WWII Really This Good?

[Dev Emch]

Umm...Laminate flooring is about the worst stuff to cut with any blade. It only takes a few cuts to dull anybody's carbide with that stuff. In fact, I went through three blades on the miter saw that I used to do a single floor with laminate in my previous residence. Nasty stuff...and the blade is not at fault, no matter who made it...

So when you guys talk about laminate flooring, are you talking about that stuff made from MDF with printed melamine like top and bottom skins? Stuff like printed pattern Pergo? Or are you talking about the stuff made from three layers of 1/8 th wood finishised with the super plastic? I know that prefinished flooring products often contain aluminum in the finish. Most likely some form of aluminum oxide ceramic which is how flooring products like Bruce flooring and Bella wood can get those 50 kajillion year warranties.

So educate us as to what material is tortureing the carbide..... Thanks.

[Chris Rosenberger]

It is the Pergo type flooring. It is the mdf core that is the problem.

[Dev Emch]

It is the Pergo type flooring. It is the mdf core that is the problem.

I find it hard to believe that MDF can trash a carbide blade given that carbide can quickly slice aluminum. Remember many olivers were used to machine parts for the aerospace industry. Are you sure its not something in the top purdy purdy layers that may be doing this? Somehow I suspect that there is some form of glass entrained in this junk.

[Matt Meiser]

I went through three blades on the miter saw that I used to do a single floor with laminate in my previous residence. Nasty stuff...and the blade is not at fault, no matter who made it...

Explains why my good Dewalt blade for my CMS didn't last very long. I installed Laminate floor in the office of my shop and then I noticed that my blade wasn't cutting worth a darn. That probably explains it.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I find it hard to believe that MDF can trash a carbide blade given that carbide can quickly slice aluminum. Remember many olivers were used to machine parts for the aerospace industry. Are you sure its not something in the top purdy purdy layers that may be doing this? Somehow I suspect that there is some form of glass entrained in this junk.

It is the MDF core. I have run into this several times over the years. I do not know what is in the stuff, but it is alot tuffer than aluminum & the dust feels gritty.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I did a laminate flooring job last year on the entire 1st floor of a home which was about 1,400 sqft. That stuff kills blades! The laminate is backed to an epoxy impregnated composite material; not mdf. It's almost like cutting very thick (1/8") Formica!

I recently purchase a Freud F40 blade for about $75 including shipping. I understand that this blade is in the same category as the Wood Worker II. In fact, they look very similiar in regards to tooth design. It works really well at about 25% cheaper. When searching for a new blade, I found many folks that claimed the blade was either equivalent or slightly better than the Wood Worker II. However, I have no experience to support that claim.

I am very happy with the Freud F40.
-Jeff

[Brad Kimbrell]

I concur with the "great setup" for saws and the blades they use. I won't mention the name of the vendor, but one of those sled guys has an old Craftsman table saw that is also "tricked out". Probably as well as a balanced and blueprinted race car engine!

I know some of the other reps and they say he spends an inordinate amount of time with his alignment fixtures every evening during the shows.

Most of those "no burn" blade demos are done with the blade ALL THE WAY UP, where only 2 or 3 teeth are actually in the wood at one time. Ask 'em to lower the blade to just clear the top of the piece of wood (where maybe 6-7 teeth are in the wood) and they will ignore you.

All that said, I happen to have the sled mentioned above and love it and also love my WWII blade.

[Dev Emch]

I concur with the "great setup" for saws and the blades they use. I won't mention the name of the vendor, but one of those sled guys has an old Craftsman table saw that is also "tricked out". Probably as well as a balanced and blueprinted race car engine!

I know some of the other reps and they say he spends an inordinate amount of time with his alignment fixtures every evening during the shows.

Most of those "no burn" blade demos are done with the blade ALL THE WAY UP, where only 2 or 3 teeth are actually in the wood at one time. Ask 'em to lower the blade to just clear the top of the piece of wood (where maybe 6-7 teeth are in the wood) and they will ignore you.

All that said, I happen to have the sled mentioned above and love it and also love my WWII blade.

That would not be the infamous dubby or double dubby would it?

Yes, these machines are tricked out including dubby's craftsman table saw. But so what. The old iron guys who lovingly restore these old woodworking machines to like new are also tricking these out. I am currently using a dentil pick to remove bits of old paint in hard to reach areas and checking every moving part and every oiler and every bearing. Each part of this jointer is getting painted independently from the rest. Even northfield does not do that. they paint the machine as a complete assembly. Its the guys tricking these out that take the time to ensure every detail is complete and the I's are dotted and T's crossed.

[Phil Ordway]

It also got me thinking that the salesmen working these shows know how to show us EXACTLY what they want us to see...

A friend of mine who manages a local woodworking supply store, and always has a booth at the local show, told me a funny story about the guys selling those "superduper impossibly tough" drill bits. After the nightly show close and everyone is getting squared away for the next day's show, those guys pull out 5 gallon buckets of mangled drill bits from under the tables and dump them in the trash. Basically all day long the guys working in the booth are quietly putting fresh drill bits out on the table and into their drills - and leaving the occasional broken one out as proof that you are seeing a real demo - while literally filling buckets hidden under the table with worn, bent, dull, tired bits.[/quote]

I bought the Bulldog bits. I've toasted a couple of 1/8" bits on mild steel using cutting fluid. The wood bits I've used are nowhere near the size they are supposed to be but... when I need to bore holes in my files or I don't care what size hole I'm drilling in wood, I have just the thing.
I have a WWII which I like, but my favorite blade is a Makita I have on my DW708 slider. Sorry, I'm a long way from my tools for another couple of months so I don't know just what blade that is.

[Alan DuBoff]

Explains why my good Dewalt blade for my CMS didn't last very long. I installed Laminate floor in the office of my shop and then I noticed that my blade wasn't cutting worth a darn. That probably explains it.

There are specific laminate/melamine blades, I have one which I have used a couple times, but I don't use much laminate, it is good for plastics also. A plywood blade would work also, I believe, it's a very simlar fine tooth pattern.

A non-laminate blade will go south in a hurry.

I got a Leitz blade for $25 or $29 for laminate, it's a no brainer at that price. When you're paying $125 for a Forrest blade, I ponder a lot longer before getting a specialized blade for laminates. That's why I will most likely not buy more Forrest blades, too much premium these days. They certainly are fine blades, both my WWII and my Chopmaster leave a nice surface, no complaints.

[Matt Meiser]

A non-laminate blade will go south in a hurry.

Does this apply to Formica and similar laminates? I don't use them much, but I've been cutting them on my TS when I do with my WWII? Am I going to prematurely wear it (or any other blade) out doing this occasionally?

[Art Davis]

Yes, it's a great blade and---yes---I get the glassy smooth cut on thin ripped strips. HOWEVER, I recently had very bad burning when ripping one inch thick strips of three or four inches width in red oak.

[Alan DuBoff]

Does this apply to Formica and similar laminates? I don't use them much, but I've been cutting them on my TS when I do with my WWII? Am I going to prematurely wear it (or any other blade) out doing this occasionally?

Matt, AFAIK, it's the plastic that heats up while cutting, and it's all laminates, melamine, and even if you wanted to cut regular sheets of plastic.

Here are Forrest blades for plastic and laminates:

http://www.forrestblades.com/nomelt.htm

http://www.forrestblades.com/hiat.htm

For me it was hard to justify and I could get a Leitz for a fraction of the price.

Oliver, I've had the WWII burn also, but there's a lot of factors and the majority of the time it's been a wonderful blade, it's just pricey. I use a 24T rip blade in my table mostly these days since I do most crosscutting on my SCMS (for power tool use).

[Mark Pruitt]

I find it hard to believe that MDF can trash a carbide blade given that carbide can quickly slice aluminum. Remember many olivers were used to machine parts for the aerospace industry. Are you sure its not something in the top purdy purdy layers that may be doing this? Somehow I suspect that there is some form of glass entrained in this junk.

i found this little tidbit of info on MDF; not really surprising when you think about what the stuff is made from. A key quote is "Due to the fact that MDF contains a great deal of glue the cutting edges of your tools will blunt very quickly." HERE is where I found this.

[Ken Garlock]

I installed a brand new WWII, 40 tooth, 10" blade last week. Yesterday I used it to cut Wisonart laminate cleanly. There was absolutely NO chip out, it was ready to use. I set the blade depth low so that the blade just barely cut through the laminate.

Last week I also sent my old WWII blade back for sharpening, and asked them to check it for wobble. I got a call this morning from Douglas at Forrest telling me that the blade was warped and they could indeed fix it for $20 over and above the sharpening cost. For a little over $40 I should get a good as new blade back, I hop.