Tool and Dust Collection Paid Advice

[Frank Hagan]

I wonder why no one has commissioned a "how to" book from Bill? Granted a book would be a lot different than a website in format and style, but Bill's information is so much more in depth than any of the dust control books out there. I would think a publishing company could assign an editor to work with Bill and help him develop the info on his web site into a info-packed "how to" on selecting, designing, and building the most effective dust collection system for home shops.

[Guy Baxter]

Woo Hoo! Look out folks I’m about to become a posting machine. ;-}

(Best buy – Jet; Best performance - Delta; Best workhorse - Milwaukee; Best color - Dewalt; Best old school - Porter Cable; Best new school – Festool; Best European – Minimax; Prettiest European – Laguna; Best forum – SawMillCreek)

I figure that if I start posting a few hundred posts a day my thread hit rate will have to improve and manufacturers will come running to give me money.

(Buy Bosch; Buy Jet; Buy Delta; Buy Milwaukee; Buy Dewalt; Buy Porter Cable; Buy– Festool; Buy– Minimax; Buy– Laguna; Read– SawMillCreek)

Unlike Bill, I have limited scruples. I also have a limited budget. So any manufacturer who wishes to improve his mention rate should seriously consider sending me some free tools. Heck, even if I don’t use them, I can resell them on ebay for extra income.

(Most used – Craftsman; Biggest seller – Amazon; Best non-tool – Cannondale; Supplies you cant live without – TiteBond, 3M; Most expensive – Bridge City; Best mail order – Lee Valley)

If you have a favorite vendor that you know also has deep pockets, please PM me with a one word brief on why they are the best and a link that I can add to my soon-to-be high-hitting blog – review – forum – link –website.

GB

[Tim Morton]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in. What makes you think you are fairly well known?

I suggest you take the money and endorse away - it will make absolutely no difference to any of my tool buying decisions.

Dave F.

Do your homework...Bill may know more about dust collection than any other person on this planet....by about 10fold.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

Bill.
Your recent thread have me thinking.
You already provide a link to our site without any payback.
We don't offer any "affiliates" program ... yet.
Our new shopping cart comes with this "standard option"

I see nothing wrong to activate it.
IF I provide an explanation of this program and disclose the "associates"

I don't think someone like you likes to loose credibility for promoting something that doesn't work.

Pick the best ideas-methods and tools, and go for it.
Ask the affiliates to disclose the program and do the same.
I promote anything that I think works good and as advertised.
Before I open my mouth for any tool, I like to use it first.

I'm thinking of a similar program for our new website with other good ideas
and tools without having an "affiliate" program.
But... If I decide to have the program,
I can sleep good for recommending something good
And even better because... I disclose it.

My -02 dollars.

[Jay Albrandt]

Bill,

If it wasn't for you and your work, the woodworking community as we know it would still only have poor dust collectors as our only options. You made it possible for the average joe to build a superior system, and in doing so, you showed everyone that professional level collection was both possible and affordable for the hobbiest. You now see tools being made with 4" or greater ports and a more conscientious design towards improved dust collection.

The companies that want you to endorse their products got their design from you........FOR FREE!

I know you would only endorse a product that you believe in (clearvue), so I say GO FOR IT! It is about time you benefit from your work.

Jay

[Lopaka Garcia]

The fact that you choose to stay independent is a testament to the type of person you are. In my opinion and of others here, is that you maintain your integrity level at the utmost. Your words will carry more weight because there is no ulterior motive for your opinions. As much as we would like to believe that we could always stay neutral with our opinions, at some time, that could change and we will be swayed by other forces.

This is a free open forum where people come to share their knowledge and experience with others and to gain some in return. I think people here enjoy sharing that with others and go away feeling good about it. Getting paid to share that knowledge on a free site, could change how people perceive you. We might think, in the back of our minds, is what he's saying pure and untainted? When you lose that benefit of doubt, the black and white areas start to become gray. These are just my opinions on this subject and I'm not saying this is true about Bill.

Another thought, is that once people know you are getting paid for what you say, you will be treated differently in my opinion because now you are a "paid consultant" in a way. They will be harsher towards your reviews and statements. I agree with the Consumer Reports comparison. You can be sure their reviews were not affected by being paid for reviewing a product. They do not accept products they are reviewing from the company. They purchase those products just like you and I would. Consumer Digest on the other hand, accepts advertisements from companies whos products they are reviewing. Can you say Norm Abrams? His shop is full of free tools he received from companies in exchange for him endorsing those said free tools.

Sorry about this long winded post.

[Gerard Pauwels]

Frankly, it never occurred to me that some contributors to SMC might be paid everytime others clicked on a link they "helpfully" included in a post. IMHO that violates the spirit if not the letter of the TOS.

I don't object to "links-for-profit" themselves. When I see links on a private site, I know there's a good chance the site owner is being compensated. More power to him. Wish I could do the same.

But when I visit SMC, I have different expectations. Here I assume advice is requested and given as among friends. I understand some answers will be better informed than others, and some will be given more out of ego than goodwill. But I expect them to be honest. Why wouldn't they be? We're just talking. Well, not all of us I guess.

Secretly profitting from working a given product name into a friendly conversation is just dishonest. Whether the fee is $300 or $.03, a shill is a shill. You can't trust his opinion, and he spoils the conversation.

If this isn't a violation of the TOS, it should be.

Gerry

[Ian Barley]

Do your homework...Bill may know more about dust collection than any other person on this planet....by about 10fold.

Tim - I suspect that there are others with just as much information working in the professional dust collection industry. I suspect that the main difference with Bill is that he is willing - even eager - to share that knowledge with as many as possible for no cost. That is what makes his efforts supremely commendable.

[Dave Richards]

Bill, I appreciate your input on the subject of dust collection. I have always thought that having no particular affiliation with one company or another made the information more creditable. I wonder if you started getting paid, would new readers of your information think you were promoting one product over another for the commission. Staying neutral might not be as financially rewarding but it's good for soul.

On the other hand, I was picturing your smiling face painted on the side of a cyclone with some catch phrase printed below.

[Peter Stahl]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

Unless you don't want the extra work that goes along with this then I would say go about your bussiness as usual. You do have a lot of potential for a How to Book and/or a DVD on the constructing and Testing of your collector. I'm sure the vendors would love to have links for that. All the added work and headaches involved may not be worth it. I think the vendor thing on some forums is the owners preference. Don't think you'd get banned for a reply unless in you sentence you would say, if you go to my site or use my. Do what's best for you, and what you need to pay your bills with.

[Guy Baxter]

Woo Hoo! Look out folks I’m about to become a posting machine. ;-}

(Best buy – Jet; Best performance - Delta; Best workhorse - Milwaukee; Best color - Dewalt; Best old school - Porter Cable; Best new school – Festool; Best European – Minimax; Prettiest European – Laguna; Best forum – SawMillCreek)

I figure that if I start posting a few hundred posts a day my thread hit rate will have to improve and manufacturers will come running to give me money.

(Buy Bosch; Buy Jet; Buy Delta; Buy Milwaukee; Buy Dewalt; Buy Porter Cable; Buy– Festool; Buy– Minimax; Buy– Laguna; Read– SawMillCreek)

Unlike Bill, I have limited scruples. I also have a limited budget. So any manufacturer who wishes to improve his mention rate should seriously consider sending me some free tools. Heck, even if I don’t use them, I can resell them on ebay for extra income.

(Most used – Craftsman; Biggest seller – Amazon; Best non-tool – Cannondale; Supplies you cant live without – TiteBond, 3M; Most expensive – Bridge City; Best mail order – Lee Valley)

If you have a favorite vendor that you know also has deep pockets, please PM me with a one word brief on why they are the best and a link that I can add to my soon-to-be high-hitting blog – review – forum – link –website.

GB

Well the PMs are in and the one word critics were not limited to tool vendors.

(Biggest Jerk – Guy Baxter; Most annoying – Guy Baxter; Leading loser – Guy Baxter; Most likely to get kicked off forum – Guy Baxter)

I think I see a general trend indicating that forum posting for the sake of making money is not going to win one any fans, and could have an impact on ones credibility.

BTW, if any posters on SMC are making money this way, I don't think I want to know. Although these kickbacks may sway a posters opinions a little, I feel most SMC posters (paid or otherwise) are not likely to post glowing reviews or recommend products that they themselves are not satisfied with.

GB

[Alan Tolchinsky]

To quote Tom: "it seems to me your integrity and trustworthiness is earned from your experience, knowledge and willingness to share the same." I think that earning a profit from your knowledge is something you have earned and deserve. I think you have earned our trust for all you have done for ALL woodworkers. You have probably saved the lives of those who have been to your site and learned from you. I say yes go ahead and endorse if you're coomfortable with that. Whomever you endorse will gain a LOT of creditbility so I'm sure you will choose wisely. And we will listen; you've earned it. Alan in Md.

[John Shuk]

Endorsing is one thing. If you work for a company and it is out there for all to see then no problem. I'm pretty sure that those who have dreamed up this scheme doesn't have it planned out that way. I'm pretty sure they would like to keep the compensation hidden. I kinda think that'd make them dirtbags in my book. Just my $.02

[Don Baer]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in.

well a quick search of your posts showes that you have weighed in of DC's a total of 2 times once to talk about remote controls and the other to blast recognised expert. So in my book Bill has it all over you.

[Frank Hagan]

Endorsing is one thing. If you work for a company and it is out there for all to see then no problem. I'm pretty sure that those who have dreamed up this scheme doesn't have it planned out that way. I'm pretty sure they would like to keep the compensation hidden. I kinda think that'd make them dirtbags in my book. Just my $.02

I think that's where the difference is. If you are a "compensated endorser", as the TV commercials now say, then you should disclose it. You see that superimposed on those Alex Trebek ads for Colonial Penn Insurance. I wonder if that's a rule the networks have, or if its something requested by either Trebek or Colonial Penn. Either way, I think the disclosure makes all the difference in the world.