Need help teaching kids to saw by hand

[Tom Jones III]

A lot of the neighborhood kids come over to my shop after school and want to help me or build their own projects. I will not let them use power tools so I bought a cheap 20" stanley combo hand saw for them to use. I've successfully taught half a dozen halflings to saw a decent line, but the oldest (11 years) can't saw straight to save his life. He is smart enough that I told him we could build a bedside table when he can saw a straight line. For some reason he just can't do it even though his 6 yr old neighbor can do it.

I don't really know the "right" way myself, here is how I've taught it. I draw a line for a crosscut for a 1x6 of pine (for a birdhouse). I clamp the board and then clamp a piece of scrap adjacent to the line for a fence to help keep the saw aligned. I have them keep the saw, their elbow and shoulder all in the same plane. The smallest ones are so weak I let them do whatever comes naturally and they seem to pick it up very quickly.

Any tips? I'm not a very good teacher and I just can't seem to figure out his problem. I hate to see him get so frustrated, he has problems making/keeping friends and I don't want this to become another problem.

[harry strasil]

have you talked with his parents and or his teachers, he may have a vision problem or be dysletic or he may just be slow or have a hand eye coordination problem. Give him a test of several different sized bolts with the washers , lock washers and nuts in a seperate pile and see how he does putting the right ones together. My son was slow, and that's one of the ways I helped him.

[Dan Oelke]

I didn't start out with just a hand saw - but with a hand powered miter-box saw. It was a back saw with rollers that guided the front and back. The rollers were on a carraige that would swing +/- 45. It let me get straight and square cuts pretty easily.

Since my brother took off with that miter box I just bought one from the local used tool place to teach my son with. I don't know how it will work, but I guess I'll find out soon (maybe tonight???)

Ebay item 7605228699 is a close picture of what I mean.

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Personally, my hand-eye coordination is really bad. REALLY bad (as in I test in the bottom 10th percentile). This probably explains a lot of my early frustration with saws -- but I wouldn't have thought of that because I've learned to compensate in so many ways.

[harry strasil]

Deidre, I lost the sight in my right eye while in the Navy when I was 20, I still have no depth perception, and it took me a few years to learn to compensate, but I did learn to compensate, I just don't try to catch flying things, like baseballs, etc.

[harry strasil]

another test Tom is to put a mark on each edge of a 1 by 6 and ask him to draw the straightest line between them he can.

[harry strasil]

some people have a natural hand eye coordination and using there hands come easy, others can't, remember Albert Einstein, had a wonderful brain, but he couldn't master tying his own shoe laces.

[Roger Nixon]

My grandson has a difficult time with western type saws but does well with a ryoba. It is also easier for smaller, weaker kids.

[Chris Moore]

Tom,
I've been where this kid is... the problem is not that he isn't carefule enough... it's that he is TOO careful. He's worrying about the line so much that he constantly making micro adjustments. Thus, a very crooked line. My grandfather cured me by making two dots. One where I should start and the other where I should end. It took a few tries, but before long I just sawed from A to B.

[Alan DuBoff]

have you talked with his parents and or his teachers, he may have a vision problem or be dysletic or he may just be slow or have a hand eye coordination problem. Give him a test of several different sized bolts with the washers , lock washers and nuts in a seperate pile and see how he does putting the right ones together. My son was slow, and that's one of the ways I helped him.

That's a good idea. My son has always been a bit un-coordinated, and my daughter has always been pretty good at tasks that require coordination.

I'd like to try some of that with my son, and see if I could get him interested in working in the shop at all. He's very artistic, has always been good at music, drawing, and other art related areas. He could make an excellent woodworker, although my daughter seems more interested in it.

[Tom Jones III]

He definitely has some developmental problems, definitely has real ADD but there is an emotional problem as well. No vision or dyslexic problems. I've discussed this with his father and the biggest thing I'm worried about is frustrating him too much. He is already showing a little improvement with emotional control and I don't want to undo the progress giving him tasks beyond his abilities.

I took a closer look at what he is doing when he cuts. First, all cuts look like they are mitred 15* or so. In other words, the part of the cut closest to him is 1/8" to the left of the back of the cut. Second, the cut as it proceeds down the board moves evenly to the left.

I've been having him cut with the board oriented vertically, in other words the cut proceeds from higher to lower. I may try to have him set the board on a stool and cut in the horizontal plane with his body higher than the wood. I may also have him start using a miter box. It is better at this point to get him successful.

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I second the suggestion for a miter box. Yeah, it's a shortcut, crutch, easy way out, or whatever you want to call it, but it sounds like both you and the kid have reached a point of frustration. It's probably more important for him to be making progress on a project than perfecting this one skill. However he ends up making the cut, his time is much better spent on this than playing video games. Congrats on what you're doing!

[Michael Gibbons]

Tom, It sounds like he is tourquing his hand or he may be right handed and left eye dominate or vice versa? Try covering his eye that is opposite the hand he is using with a patch and see what happens. Thats what I did to correct my sons problem shooting his bow.

Mike

[Dan Racette]

him being to "strong" for the saw. wouldn't you say that if he wasn't letting the saw cut for him, that excessive lateral movement would create poor line tracking on the cut line? (which would even me more sensitive in a japanese saw).

Also see if his wrist and elbow are tracking straight and true. you could video tape him from directly head on and let him see how much his arm/wrist is drifting.

just a thought.

[Randall Houghton]

Tom

Check out a copyof Hand Tools Their Ways and Workings by Alden A Watson.
It about the best hand use instructions I've ever seen and in the section under saws it gives a detailed description of correct body mechanics and alignment.
You should probably help him make a low horse to hold his work on similar to the one Harry shows. Most hand saw cutting problems are from incorrect body mechanics believe I say that from first hand experience. Good luck

Regards
Randy

Bring back shop class to American schools!