Interesting Dovetail Technique

[Alan DuBoff]

Saw Kevin Drake at Japan Woodworker today, and he was showing his kerf marker, which I thought was interesting, as well as his offset gauge (a kinda fancy feeler gauge). Sorry, I didn't take pictures...

Basically, he uses a marker the same width as the saw blade, when he marks the dovetails. He uses a LN carcass saw, but the front 2"-3" and the rear 2"-3" are filed smooth with no teeth on them, and only teeth in the center. The teeth are filed with no (i.e., 0 degrees) rake, and Kevin claims by having the smooth section in front allows for this as you get a "running start" so to speak. I used his saw to make a few cuts and we talked about it, it does work quite well.

He marks the line for the cut, then places the smooth section in the mark, and slides the saw into the cut. It worked well for him and his joints were very nicely done, not to mention that he was a very personal and overall nice gent to talk with. I really enjoyed meeting him.

He also uses an offset gauge that he's developed which allows you to offset the marking of the 2nd piece by the thickness of the saw. This allows Kevin to cut a line exactly where it should be so he doesn't need to split the line with his saw cut. And because of how he cuts them, he can then place the front of the saw blade in the mark and slide it into the cut.

I'm not sure I would use such a system, but I like the fact that he's thought about it and has tried to improve and create a system that works for him and others, which it does. I'm always impressed with folks that can think outside the box...(that's almost a dovetail pun in itself ). I enjoy supporting our toolmakers who show creative ideas.

I passed along links to both Mike Wenzloff's website, as well as Leif Hanson's website. Kevin mentioned he was interested in knowing more about handcrafted saws being produced these days, and when I mentioned how the latest LN saws appear to be more machine made in how the router leaves a line when it has cut the handle, not only did he agree but said he feels the same way about their plane handles these days...also more machined than they were previously. We both agreed that LN makes excellent tools though.

I use a Tite-Mark made by Glen-Drake exclusively, and it's a wonderful tool. Kevin really does make some nice tools, the hammers are wonderul as are the kerf markers and the offset gauge. All handles made out of tan oak with brass tooling for most all of his tools.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Cool, thanks for the info. I once watched a person who had modified the toe of a saw to not have teeth, but they would use it on half-blind DTs. First the angle portion would be saws to both extents, the saw withdrawn and held level and the toe lightly tapped down to "cut" the remainder of the saw kerf. Worked well.

I think this was shown in a FWW a few years back iirc.

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Cool, thanks for the info. I once watched a person who had modified the toe of a saw to not have teeth, but they would use it on half-blind DTs. First the angle portion would be saws to both extents, the saw withdrawn and held level and the toe lightly tapped down to "cut" the remainder of the saw kerf. Worked well.

Nice, this is a method Tage Frid used to show, and does in his old dovetail video with a piece of a filed band saw blade, but says you can use any old saw blade and/or scraper as well if that is handy.

I think this was shown in a FWW a few years back iirc.

Might have even beed Frid...definitely a guy that will be missed. I love his comments at times, where it seems he mentioned in his video about tapping the steel into the half blind pin slot..."you better do that or you're gonna spend about half a day cleaning those pins out...". He was a funny guy...he was also strongly against cutting tails first, due to having to mark the pins on the end grain afterwards, called it "mickey mouse". He has a point.

And, BTW, I would say that Kevin Drake's kerf marking knife does allow the end grain to be marked. It really does cut a kerf.

My solution is probably not as good, but I use this Stanley Pocket Knife to mark most of my joinery layout, sometimes an awl. I use the Glen-Drake Tite-Mark also, so only use that for non-thickness marking. I honed the tip of the pocket knife round so that it kind of slices the wood. Kevin's solution leaves a clean kerf, cut in the grain.

The Stanley works as well as anything I've found where I need to get a thin, long, slender blade in between a narrow tail space, when the pins are marked (I hope Tage is not rolling over in his grave as I type that, no offense meant by using a "mickey mouse" solution. ).

BTW, now that I have your attention Mike, I have to ask...why don't saw makers provide a kerf knife with their saws, the same size as the blade? <gd&r>

It seems like something that might be useful to a lot of folks, and this would be one of the items in the saw toolkit, along with a mill file, saw files, file handles, jointing handle, filing templates, saw set, nut driver, cleaner, etc...might even be good to have an extra nut or two in a kit like that...

OTOH, maybe the kerf knife would belong in the joinery kit, which included all the needed marking gauges, and associated tools for joinery...dovetail templates, sliding bevel, marking gauge, mortise gauge, marking knive, kerf knife (???).

In fact, it would be nice to see someone like Glen-Drake come out with such a kit, Kevin is certainly well on the way with the Tite-Mark, the associated mortise cutters, he even has a nice mill file/burnisher.</gd&r>

[Joe Rogers]

Some of these processes have been aired before as stated but the sum of the items are truly thought provoking. Variable pitch toothing on saws is not new but smooth steel? How easy could that make starting a kerf... I bet Mike W. has already added this feature to the options list.JR

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Alan and I wound up at JWW at different times, but I too was impressed with the kerf knife. I may get myself one some day.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Alan

A while back, in a moment of utter boredom or mania (not sure which!), I decided to make a marking knife for skinny dovetails, that is one that could run in the saw kerf.

So I converted an old steel trowel thus:

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Chiselmarkingknife1a.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

And used it like this - cut the line within the kerf before removing the waste:

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Chiselmarkingknifedemo1a.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

I have since abandoned it for that purpose and instead converted it to be used for half-blind dovetails as per Tage Frid.

My new marking knife for dovetails is this one. I just love it - it is so comfortable - like holding a pencil.

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Dovetailmarkingknifeandawl.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Top is an awl made from Tasmanian Blackwood. Bottom is the Jarrah dovetail knife. The blade is toolsteel from a jigsaw blade (about 1mm thick, but very stiff).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alan DuBoff]

Derek,

I like the thin marking knife, this would also solve my problem that the Stanley pocket knife solves for me. The Stanley replacement blades can be bought cheap also, about $3 (US), and I had thought about making a handle as I would prefer a warm piece of wood over a cooler piece of aluminum anyday of the week!

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Derek, that Tasmanian blackwood is fabulous.

[Martin Shupe]

Does Kevin Drake plan to market the dovetail marker? I like the idea, and have become a little bit of a "collector" of dovetail markers.

I like his idea of starting the saw with no teeth also!

[Alan DuBoff]

Does Kevin Drake plan to market the dovetail marker? I like the idea, and have become a little bit of a "collector" of dovetail markers.

Martin, when you say dovetail marker, what are you referring to? Sounds like a template to mark the dovetails with, but maybe I'm mis-interpeting that. You might be referring to this marking knife also...(thought I would ask rather than assume).

Glen-Drake does sell the kerf starter, which is what I was referring to in this thread, check their site, here's a pic: