Exploding the oil change myth?

[skip coyne]

John
depends on the engine , some the timing belt breaks and it a trip in for a new belt some its new engine time .

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...chGatesPopular

heres a guide gates puts out , lets you see how critical it is for your particular engine

[Jim O'Dell]

OK, probably a dumb question but, consider the source. I've got just under 130K on my little Subaru w/2.2L engine. Been using decent filter and Shell "regular" oil since buying it at about 60K miles. Changes typically at @4-5K for both, oil & filter. So, any of you motorheads see any reason I couldn't or, worse yet, shouldn't switch to synthetic at this point? The car runs well and (knock on wood) I haven't had any real issues with it whatsoever, outside of very squeaky brakes. One friend did recommend I go ahead and have the timing belt replaced before it decides to go belly-up at the most inopportune time. Recommendations???

John, changing to synthetic should be no problem. Staying with the factory recommended oil weight is the key. And again, look in your mainetenance guide if you got it with the car (never know on a used car). It will give the interval for timing belt changes. If you didn't get one, try online at Subaru to see if they have them on line. They may have the service intervals on their web site...Ford does. You might be able to find out also if the Subaru engine is an "interference" engine or a "non-interference" engine. the difference being that if the belt breaks on a non-interference engine, the valves will not strike the pistons. It is sometimes called a free wheeling engine. Either way, if it breaks, you're stranded where you are. I had a chain break on my '74 Toyota Celica back in the 80's. It was an interference engine and was not a pretty site. Jim

[Lee DeRaud]

Hey, Lee, don't get me started. I'm a service advisor. Believe me, we have no aspirations of being demoted to the sales department.

Sounds like you actually go out to the work bays and talk to the technicians on a regular basis and have a serious clue what's going on. That's certainly not how it works at my dealership: if it wasn't within walking distance and my car wasn't still under warranty, I'd certainly find somebody better. As it is, I make sure I talk to the guy that actually does the work...can you guess I'm not their favorite customer?

[Wes Bischel]

Jim O.,
Maybe you know my Uncle - or at least people like him.
Years ago, he bought a new Bronco - kept taking back to the dealer because it was loosing oil at an alarming rate - about a quart every 100 miles! The dealer was all over the thing - couldn't find a thing wrong. By the seventh visit, my Uncle was really steamed. One of the mechanics asked him when he had last read the dipstick - "Just before I came in and it's down a quart!" was my Uncles curt reply. As my Uncle tells it, the mechanic was very kind when he explained the proper way to read a dipstick! All along my Uncle had been overfilling the engine by a quart!

Back to the topic, these days if we drive 15,000 miles a year between all three cars we are lucky, mostly short hops. So each car gets the oil changed about twice a year. Which is kind of what we used to do when I was a kid - when you took the snows off, oil/lube/tune-up and when you put the snows on, oil/lube/tune-up, and in between, you just drove the wheels off the thing.

Wes

[Allan Johanson]

I had a chain break on my '74 Toyota Celica back in the 80's. It was an interference engine and was not a pretty site. Jim

My old boss had a timing belt go on his Lotus Turbo Esprit. The valves had an argument with the pistons.... A couple months later when the parts arrived from England and it was all back together, it was running again. The bill? 10-15K as I recall. Ouch!

How are new/rebuilt engines today for being clean? By this I mean there are a group of people out there who insist on changing the oil in a new car at 1000-2000 miles to remove any small bits of metal or other contaminants from the engine. Sounds like cheap insurance to me.

Allan

[Jim O'Dell]

Sounds like you actually go out to the work bays and talk to the technicians on a regular basis and have a serious clue what's going on. That's certainly not how it works at my dealership: if it wasn't within walking distance and my car wasn't still under warranty, I'd certainly find somebody better. As it is, I make sure I talk to the guy that actually does the work...can you guess I'm not their favorite customer?

Yeah, I actually spend more time in the shop than I should! Though I haven't mechanic-ed for a living, I have 28 college hours in auto repair for a good background. I installed stereos and alarms in cars for a few years. I'm lucky in that we have a pretty good crew. Most everyone wants to make an honest living. There is one guy that I have to temper what he recommends from time to time. It's sad that there are obviously so many places out there that think they have to lie about things. My philosophy is that I want a customer for life. Not get what I can now and hope someone new comes along to replace them.

Wes, something similar happens quite often. The oil we use per Ford is a 5W20 synthetic blend. That is really pretty thin, and there's not a lot of color to it. Makes it hard to read on the dipstick if nothing else. Tell you Uncle to clean the dipstick, put it back in for a few seconds then pull out to read with the tip facing down on a piece of paper towel. A blue paper shop towel works best.then holding the tip in place, bend the dipstick on to the towel. The oil will leave a wet spot on the towel showing where the level is. Then you can tell if it is full or not.

Allan, that hurts. I did have a customer that had a 2002 Lincoln LS for a company car. These vehicles came with 36 month, 36,000 mile free maintenance, based on 5000 mile intervals, so the first 7 visits would be free. (He didn't buy the car at our dealership) He came in at about 33,000 miles with a ticking noise in the front of the car that increased in frequency as the engine speed increased. I ended up haveing to explain to him that free maintenance was NOT the same thing as maintenance free. He had never changed the oil at all! Sludged the engine to the point that the lifters were not getting oil. Long block cost him about 6,500.00 installed. We see stickers all the time from the Jiffy Lube type places where 10W30 or straight 30 weight oil is being used. Again, this can, and will in time, cause sludging and engine failure. We also suspect the wrong trans fluid being used. In fact, the used mini van I just purchased to replace my wife's old Caravan had nice looking trans fluid in it, but it foamed when hot. Got it changed to the proper fluid and no more problems. It's amazing the people I talk to that have 20W40 oil in their new cars. It's racing oil, it must be better!!! Unfortunately, they will learn a ard lesson if they keep the car long enough.
Oh, and Tom. That guy's name wouldn't be Walter Oiler, would it!?! One of my auto teacher's name, in Jr. College, was Walter Edsel Oiler. (With a name like that, he was destined to be a mechanic!) He did the same thing. He actually developed an additive that one of the oil companies bought the rights to. And in the deal, he got all of his oil free. Still changed the filter and added a quart, but did it about every 500 to 1000 miles, IIRC. He couldn't tell us what brand oil it was because of his contract with the college, but we all betted it was Penzoil with the PZ-7 additive they advertised so hard. ( I think that's what they called it) Man I've been talkative today! Jim

[Steve Gray]

My personal experience with better gas mileage and oil is using the correct
weight oil in the engine. I messed up once while buying oil at Walmart and got 15-50w mobil 1 instead of the normal 10w30 mobil 1. The wifes lincoln has a computer screen that gives mileage and other info. Her mileage immediantly dropped from 26.3 to 25.0 and stayed that way the whole time the 15/50 was in the engine. Pulled it out 2 weeks ago and put 10w30 back in and went back to 26.3 immediantly. I didn't keep track of mileage when I ran a standard oil. The recomended weight is actually 5/30 but most of the time its really hot out here and I have trouble getting over my own old habits.
We usually spend a little over $500 per month on fuel, and man, I am almost willing to try anything to lower that! The car is paid for and still seems to have plenty of life left, so I am going to run it till she is almost ready to drop.

[Roy Wall]

OK, probably a dumb question but, consider the source. I've got just under 130K on my little Subaru w/2.2L engine. Been using decent filter and Shell "regular" oil since buying it at about 60K miles. Changes typically at @4-5K for both, oil & filter. So, any of you motorheads see any reason I couldn't or, worse yet, shouldn't switch to synthetic at this point? The car runs well and (knock on wood) I haven't had any real issues with it whatsoever, outside of very squeaky brakes. One friend did recommend I go ahead and have the timing belt replaced before it decides to go belly-up at the most inopportune time. Recommendations???

John,

I would not at this point. Keep the same "dino oil" schedule going .....you should easily get 200K miles on the little Subaru.......hopefully 250K!!!

[Tom Stover]

Last night I went out and checked the owners manual of my wifes Saturn Vue just to make sure what it said about oil changes. I thought it said every 5000 miles but what it said was to change oil when the "change oil soon" light came on. Driving conditions could change the frequency of changes. Oh, this Vue has the Honda 3.5 engine.

[Ian Barley]

I find this fascinating. My wifes new(ish) Volkswagen has no set service interval (computer monitors and advises when due) but is rated for approx 20,000 miles between oil changes, with suitable synthetic oils. My van is rated at 15,000 miles or 12 months for oils changes. I cannot imagine running a vehicle that requires ol change about every 8 weeks which is what 3,000 miles of motoring is for me.

[Stan Mijal]

This discussion reminds me of one we have in boating and outboard maintenance. Outboard water pump impellers have factory suggested replacement intervals of anywhere from 1-3 years. Some of thise arguing against replacement at reccomended intervals will state that they have gone "x" years without replacement and everything is OK. the same goes for the oil change intervals. Some have had experiences where very long extended intervals have been ok. Manufacturers have to recommend reasonable intervals that will promote almost incident-free results. This includes vehicles placed in highly stressed situations (or outboards run in silty water) as well as those run under ideal conditions with little or no stress. Oil quality can vary significantly(especially dino vs synthetics comes into play. I dont know of any manufaturer who has different intervals for synthetics although we all know synthitics provide more protection) , but a single interval change must be writtten to cover all oils.
Needless to sy, follow the manufaturers recommended intervals while under warrranty to avoid coverage problems. After that? Go with your gut (and brain), after all , its on your dime at that point.
As to timing belt changes. Belts are manufatured with a rubber based compound that will suffer the effects of deterioration by heat, drying out, and ozone over long periods of time. If your engine is an engine that will suffer valve/piston interference (read costly mess) definitely change the belts regularly. (penny saved-pound foolish comes to mind here) . If your engine is a non-interference engine, you theoretically could wait until the belt snaps, and then tow the vehicle in and get it changed, but who has time for that?
Anyway, <soapbox rant off> best of luck with those decisions.....

[Jim O'Dell]

Steve, if I was you , I would have pulled the 15w50 out as soon as I noticed my mistake. Is your Lincoln a pre 2000 model? If so, the maintenance guide did say 5W30. Ford came out with an update about 5 years ago that says to use 5W20 in those cars as well.

I'm surprised at the 20,000 mile service interval. Even the Hybrids say something like 15k due to reduced engine running time. (At least the Ford/Mercur hybrid is 15.) 20k seems way too long, no matter what type of oil it is. Jim

[Steve Gray]

Jim,
I didn't realize I had bought 15w50 until I was pouring the last quart in the engine. I was not worried about running it because of the 15wgt. rating. I was surprised about the loss of fuel mileage. About running 20,000 miles between changes, I have the sample results from 7,500, 12,000 and 15,000 miles and all show more than suitable for continued use. My wife is a school teacher and the Lincoln is her ride to work and home, 65 miles each way. All interstate miles. If it were a police car with alot of idling and then sudden acceleration I don't think that the oil would last as long. BUT, I am running test on 3 different brand police cars right now. I have had a hard time letting go of my own ideas on oil change intervals, but I've seen literally hundreds of our own sample results and those results overwhelmingly came back good. If I can extend our oil change intervals by double on just our light duty equipment, my dept will save thousands of dollars a year.
I don't fault anyone for maintaining their own preference in service intervals, its just that I can really save alot of money for my company.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The truth is simple:
If you don't change your oil every 3000 miles the gates of hell will open up and swallow you.

That is why in New Jersey we always change our oil at 3000 miles like clockwork and we do it in a parking lot or field or side of the road where we can simply pull the plug spilling the old oil out onto the ground as an offering to the oil gods.

Apparently it works perfectly as no one has ever been swallowed in the gates of hell.

[Zahid Naqvi]

the owners manual of my 98 Corolla says 7500 miles under normal driving conditions. I stick to the manufacturer recommendation about the oil change frequency and the type of oil I use. The oil change places still place a 3K sticker, doesn't bother me. 118K miles and counting, no mechanical problems of any kind yet.
I think mine comes with a timing chain and not a belt. I did take it to the dealer for the 100K service, the only thing recommended was to change brake pads, which I did myself.