Scoring blade......?

[John Kain]

So I got a whole lotta information from Laguna the other day about their equipment. I really dig their stuff (who doesn't)....

My one question is..........

Does anyone really use a scoring blade? I know it's a beautiful thing, but is it really necessary in most shops? I use veneered plywood alot and have been really disappointed in the cuts I get, especially crosscuts. I know the scoring blade would help, but does it really make as clean of cuts as they say it does. I use a pretty sharp Freud blade now, but I'm still disappointed.

I'm really looking at the Laguna TSS now. If you remember my post earlier, I'm a surgeon and am looking at the Sawstop vs. European type saws to protect my livelihood. The TSS seems to "get me away from the blade" very well, and is made damn well with a tabletop similar to the sawstop. The TSS accessory is a scoring blade and I'm seriously thinking about it. Any thoughts?

[Ian Barley]

I don't use mine often because most of my work is solid timber and doesn't need it. When I do use it it works perfectly. It is not a gimmick. If you are in the market anyway the extra dollars will be worth it. I would not buy a saw of this type without even if only as a way of protecting future resale value.

[lou sansone]

if your going to be cutting sheet veneered sheet stock then a scoring blade is really worth it. Folks who don't have scoring blades have ways of making the cut with good success, but I am sure that if one were to have a saw with it on it, that option would be used all the time when processing veneered sheet stock.
lou

[Vaughn McMillan]

Question for those with scoring blade experience: What does the scoring blade do that the main blade does not? I understand the concept of a shallow cut preceding the main cut, but how does it prevent chipout? I know it does, but I'm curious as to how. In other words, how does the scoring blade cut the veneer without chipping the edge of the cut?

- Vaughn

[David Werkheiser]

John, yes scoring blades do give a clean cut on both sides of cut if set-up right. they are usually only on vert. panel and sliding panel saws. They are very costly ($ 10,000- 45,000) but,cut accurate square panels with chip-free square edges while keeping your hands well away from blade. These saws take-up a fair amount of space, my Holz Her vert. takes 6'x12' and my friends Alteddolf 10' slider has a 12'x24' footprint. If space is limited, go with the Saw Stop and a Festool. With their guide and vaccume you will get good , clean cuts. Do your self a favor and do a search on Laguna both on this site and on "WoodWeb"
Best of luck, Dave W
Vaughn, A scoring blade works because of it's size ,4"; cuts only 1/8" deep and rotates in oppsite direction. Hope this helps

[Dan Larson]

John, I have the TSS with scoring. If you have any plans to ever work with plywood, than I would urge you get the scoring option. I've been working with Baltic birch lately, and makes life so much easier. A while back I did the experiment of making a cut through ply with and without the scoring blade-- the difference was dramatic.

Vaughn, I'm not certain of the reason why a scoring blade prevents veneer blowout, but I'd have to guess that it has to do with the cutting angles of the blade teeth as they travel through the bottom veneer layer. It seems to me that the shallow cut of the scoring blade allows for a cut with more of a lateral component, while the main blade making the full depth cut will travel through the veneer layer with more of a downward component. But then again my explaination may be a little suspect because it's Sunday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet...

Dan

Edit: Now that I've had my coffee and read David & Paul's posts, I'd agree that the counter rotation of the scoring blade is the better explaination.

[Paul B. Cresti]

A scoring blade does exactly what it's names says. It puts a slight score on the panel prior to the main blade cutting the panel. It works on the similair concept of running a Exacto knife along the edges of chip board to create a score line. Each successive cut cuts a little more and thus gives a sharp clean edge. The scoring blade rotates in the oppposite direction, and creates this light "score line". You need to adjust the scoring blade in width (similar to a dado blade with a split scorer or raising the blade hieght in a conical shaped scorer), height, and lateral position in relation to the main saw blade cut line.

Yes there are many ways to score a panel to get good results and in many instances a good laminate blade will do a great job but with a scorer you do not need to keep switching out your blades all the time (sometimes i still do though). If you have the option of getting one i would highlt recommend that you do.

Do also check out the other manufacturers of European sliders as the TSS seems a bit limiting and more like a hybrid between a CS and a EFSTS.

[Burt Waddell]

So I got a whole lotta information from Laguna the other day about their equipment. I really dig their stuff (who doesn't)....

My one question is..........

Does anyone really use a scoring blade? I know it's a beautiful thing, but is it really necessary in most shops? I use veneered plywood alot and have been really disappointed in the cuts I get, especially crosscuts. I know the scoring blade would help, but does it really make as clean of cuts as they say it does. I use a pretty sharp Freud blade now, but I'm still disappointed.

I'm really looking at the Laguna TSS now. If you remember my post earlier, I'm a surgeon and am looking at the Sawstop vs. European type saws to protect my livelihood. The TSS seems to "get me away from the blade"
very well, and is made damn well with a tabletop similar to the sawstop. The TSS accessory is a scoring blade and I'm seriously thinking about it. Any thoughts?

Only one thought on the sliding table saw. It has limitations as to the cuts that it can make.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Only one thought on the sliding table saw. It has limitations as to the cuts that it can make.

Do not start this again, we now know what you have used in the past..... just wanted to add my .02 ...and I will NOT comment again on it.

[George Lesniak]

John,

Just curious, did they send you info on the "new" TSS or the previous model?

http://www.lagunatools.com/images/pr...l_preview.html

There are no real details, just pictures.

George

[Charlie Plesums]

Question for those with scoring blade experience: What does the scoring blade do that the main blade does not? I understand the concept of a shallow cut preceding the main cut, but how does it prevent chipout? I know it does, but I'm curious as to how. In other words, how does the scoring blade cut the veneer without chipping the edge of the cut?

- Vaughn

The scoring blade rotates in the opposite direction to the main blade. Thus the scoring blade enters the bottom face of the wood (pushing into the wood) and exits through the kerf just cut. The main blade enters the top face of the wood (pushing into the wood from the top) and exits through the kerf cut by the scoring blade.

I use my scoring blade on practically every cut in veneered material, especially cross-cut, and have virtually no chip out (if there is any, I need to align the scoring blade).

I have the 8.5 foot MiniMax slider, and in recent discussions realized that it doesn't take any more space than a regular table saw. If I am going to rip an 8 foot board, I need to have 17 feet available - the blade plus 8 feet before and after the blade - the same space I have to keep clear for my slider (but I don't have to find and set up the infeed/outfeed stands). If I am going to cross-cut an 8 foot panel (or even a 10 foot sheet), I will use the outrigger to hold it steady as it goes through the cut. When I am doing a lot of sheet goods or long cross-cuts, I keep the outrigger on, just as I would keep the support tables set up with my old table saw. If I need shop space (the assembly phase of a project), I would have put my support tables away with my old saw; in less time I can now remove the outrigger from my slider to make room. Although a sliding table saw or combo machine looks huge, in practice it doesn't take any more room than a regular saw with the required support accessories.

[nic obie]

To add to what Charlie said about the space a slider takes, you really don't need the 52" rip capacity that conventional table saws need in order to crosscut a 4 x 8 sheet of ply. On a slider you just use the outrigger on the crosscut fence. My slider has a 32" rip capacity but I really only need 25".

My saw is a MM SC2 with only a 52" crosscut stroke (outrigger crosscut fence will support 65" to the left of the blade) but it takes up less room than my old saw with a 52" rip capacity fence and a feed out table big enough to rip 8' long ply.

As to the comment about sliders not being able to make all the cuts a conventional saw can, I for one, haven't come across that problem. In fact, IMHO I'd have to say it's the other way around.

One thing more that I can't stress enough, Using a format style sliding table saw keeps your hands away from the blade. It would be the best of both worlds if you cold buy a slider with the Saw Stop safety brake, but if I had to pick between the two I'd go for the format style slider.

[Burt Waddell]

Do not start this again, we now know what you have used in the past..... just wanted to add my .02 ...and I will NOT comment again on it.

Paul,

'Just wanted to make sure he was aware of the limitations of the saw. In fact, I believe it was you that posted about a jig that you had made so that you could cut smaller items. (forgive me if I'm incorrect)

Burt

[Brian Gumpper]

John,

I don't have a Laguna but can tell you I score and then cut all my critical plywood pieces. I am using just a 50T ATBR combo blade and without scoring first, you will get some ragged edges on the bottom side.

So to answer your question, a scoring blade is a good idea if you are going to run a lot of sheet goods.

[john whittaker]

John, I read your previous post and IMHO...based on your situation I think you are looking in the right direction. This is not an endorsement for Laguna, but a node in the direction of a euro style slider.