Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Mortising chisels

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    281

    Mortising chisels

    I was awestruck watching Frank Klausz do hand-chopped mortises in his M&T video a few months back. This summer I tackled large scale mortises while building my workbench, using a brace and bit followed by bench chisels to clean up. Now I'm ready to expand my Neander horizons and invest in some mortising chisels.

    There's just no easy way to put this, I'm on a very tight budget. If one can't get a decent mortise chisel for less than $40, then ok, I need to hear that. And yes, I'm keeping my eye out for old Greeley's, Swan's, Stanleys and Sorby's. But if my lack of success over the past few months is any indication, I'm likely to still be looking for vintage chisels next fall unless I get really lucky.

    My research on new mortise chisels brands so far can be summarized as follows (feel free to comment, dispute, question my sanity, etc):

    New Robert Sorbys (Registered mortise, heavy duty mortise): Not as good as their price or reputation would suggest: poor edge retention, disappointing performance for many recent purchasers, relatively expensive.

    Japanese Mortise chisels: Very hard steel and hence edge holding capability, good performance with the negative of edge brittleness, especially when levering out waste. (these are on my "consider" list). Expensive.

    Two Cherries: The gold standard among western mortise chisels. Not as hard as Japanese chisels with possible side benefit of less tendency for edges to break down in rough use. I'm considering these, but they too are quite expensive.

    Hirsh: made by the same manufacturer as Two Cherries. The equal to them except for finish and polishing. More comfortable handles? Rumored to be less expensive than Two Cherries. Also rumored to actually be for sale. I'd love to consider these, but I can't find them anywhere.

    Crown Tools Mortise Chisels. I've found references to Crown manufactured mortising chisels but I can't get a firm read on whether they are any good, how much they cost and even who would sell them. My sense (based on a few Crown tools that I do own and use) is that they traffic in the appearance and reputation of old world European tooling, but don't quite measure up. My guess is that they would be worse than Sorbys.

    And then, my latest find, Diefenbacher tools sells "English Mortising Chisels" at a (relatively) attractive price. About 60% of the cost of a similarly sized Two Cherries. I've sent an email to Ron Diefenbacher re: their quality of steel, etc, but haven't gotten a response yet. (Imagine that, he's not patiently waiting next to his computer anxiously awaiting the opportunity to validate the low-end options of cheap bastards like me!)

    Can anyone offer other alternatives that I can research? Am I all wet about my research so far? Should I pick a less expensive hobby?

    A related question, but what sizes chisels do I need? Except for my workbench, I've been working almost exclusively with surfaced 4/4 (3/4") I'm thinking definitely the 3/8". If I can only afford two right now, should I go with the 1/4" or the 1/2"?

    Thanks in advance for any insight, suggestions you may have.
    Marc

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    2,266
    I greatly prefer the older chisels, and to your list, I would add T.H. Witherby, and the older Buck Brothers. Should be $10-15@. As to sizes, I find that the most used are the 1/8" to 1/2". When I see older chisels at a flea market, yard sale, etc., they are frequently mortisers. As far as the bench, bevel edges, my personal favoirte is the Stanley 750, which gets spendy on ebay, but not so much so elsewhere. The older paring chiels are likewise about $10-15@, and the same brands are good also. No need to spend $40 on mortise and paring chisels, IMHO. I actually like the old steel better than the new, although I have heard that the 2 cherries are also excellent. If a new handle is needed, so what. I am not a collector at all. I have no matched sets (although getting close on the 750's (so, did they make a 5/16")). A slippery slope, we all know.
    Alan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    362
    Sorry to only add another expensive chisel to your list, but Steve Knight has a link to a maker of mortise chisels that look very interesting. Here is the URL:

    http://www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/mortise_chisels/ .

    Good Luck
    Old age can be better than the alternative.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    phoenix, az
    Posts
    54
    marc, ill agree with alan. like you, i too am on a budget so finding good tools at a cheap price is important. for the money, buck bros makes a good tool.

    as far as size, if you are using mostly 4/4 id go with a 1/4" first. most tenons should be 1/3 of the total thickness of the board. so that would make the 1/4" chisel the best to start with. good luck in your search.

    scotty
    thank you cheryl for being my wife as well as best friend. without you i wouldnt be who i am today!

  5. #5
    Are you sure the hirsch and two cherries chisels are mortising chisels? I know that they have identicle bench chisels but I didn't know about matching mortise chisels.

    I bought the Hirsch set of bench chisels here .

  6. #6
    Hi Marc, I don't think having a great chisel it is as important as you may think. I took a chairmaking class with Brian Boggs. He told us that when he started making and selling his chairs, he had so little money that he could not afford a chisel to make mortices. So he sharpened a screw driver and used that. He said he used it for a long time before he had the money to buy a chisel. So don't feel bad about not having a chisel. Buy a good screw driver. Pete
    Pete Lamberty

  7. #7

    Two Cherries & Hirsh

    Both companies sell both standard bevel edge bench chisels AND mortising chisels. I've no comments on either since I haven't used them.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    281

    Great responses, but .....

    Alan: Thanks for the suggestions regarding older Witherby and Buck Brothers tools. Basically, if I had found a mortise (or even a firmer) chisel of any make or vintage, I would have bought it. Nothing is showing up at my old tool haunts. I’m with you, I’d actually prefer an older tool, but I’m pessimistic about finding anything in the near future. I want to chop mortises, not drive across state lines. Besides, if I find a seller of old mortise chisels, I bet they'll also have a nice tenon saw. And a plough plane or a Bedrock smoother. Maybe a set of Millers Falls carving tools ….. Mmmmm. Uggghhh. Old tools. Doh!

    Lloyd: Thanks for the link to Jim Wilson’s chisels. I read somewhere (maybe BP) a while back that his tools were held in very high regard, but that he had ceased production. Good to see him rejoining this ‘Second Golden Age of Hand tools’ as Dave Anderson put it. You had me going there for a minute until I realized the prices didn’t include the handles.

    Scott: Your point about the 1/3-1/3-1/3 rule is well taken. Looks like 1/4” should be at the top of my list. Thanks.

    Matt: As per Dave’s follow up, it's been my understanding that mortise chisels are sold under the Hirsch label, I’ve just never found a source to buy them.

    Pete: Now I’ve heard horror stories of using chisels for screwdrivers, but this is the first I’ve heard of it the other way around. Except for really deep mortises, I wonder how much better a modified screwdriver would be than a ¼” bevel chisel. In any case, I want to see what the real McCoy does for my mortising technique, so I’m determined to get a real mortise chisel.

    Well, let me repose my original question: Does *anybody* out there use new mortise chisels? Or is it that everyone but me knows the secret password to utter at flea markets and antique malls that opens a hidden door to the mortise chisel room?
    Marc

  9. #9

    Hirsch Chisel Source

    Highland Hardware (www.tools-for-woodworking.com) lists Hirsch mortise chisels in their catalog. The prices look almost the same as Fine-Tools but shipping should be considerably less. If you get some of these, let us know how they work out. I have the Hirsch mortise chisels on my "tools-I-need-to-buy-someday" list.

    Wendell

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    442

    Sorbies

    I have some of the Sorby mortise chisels. I've chopped in pine, straight-grain fir, poplar, bloodwood, and cherry. I was pretty new to hand tools when I bought them and didn't do much research, but heard/read the same comments about them as you (after I bought)...poor edge retention and performance.
    Frankly, I don't think they are that bad of a chisel. Probably not as good as their price would lend you to believe they are, but certainly not bad. I don't find myself sharpening any more than I think I should, and have not ever noticed any rolling of the edges. On the other hand, these are the only mortise chisels I've ever used, so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.
    I also have the 2-cherries bench chisels, which I like a lot. If the mortise chisels are anything these, I'm sure they would be nice. If I were doing it again, and was going to buy new, I would probably take a serious look at these. But at $40 / chisel, that is a big investment.
    I hope this helps.

    Tom

  11. #11
    I have a set of Sorbys too. They were a birthday present from my wife and to be honest I have no complaints about them at all. I have choped mortices in Oak and Maple as well as various softwoods with them and not had a problem with edge retention. I have an assortment of older chisels too and to be frank I haven't seen a big difference.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    48

    Another option

    Marc:

    I have heard other people not advise using the 1/3 1/3 1/3 rule because now the tenon is less than half the thickness of the 2 cheeks.

    For 3/4 stock, most of the reading has recommended a 3/8" mortice which gives you 3/16" per cheek of the mortice. This means equal wood is removed from both mortice and from the tenon.

    As for chisels
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Another option would be to grab some O1 from a local steel supplier (Metal supermarkets, perhaps) or MSC or other online joint.

    Each chisel is less than $10 worth of steel.

    It will already be annealed and should cut with a hacksaw easily. Cut 2 triangles out of the top to make the tang taper. Cut a shoulder at the base of the tang. Cut the 30 bevel on the end with the saw. Touch up with a file, and the heat treat for 01 is dead simple.

    Make yourself a custom handle for it. (Either turned on the lathe or spokeshave an oval profile to help you keep it registered).

    Drill a hole in the handle a bit smaller than the tang.
    Heat the tang and burn the handle on.

    Sharpen
    Begin using chisel. If it ever breaks, you know what it takes to make a new one or by then you might have more $$$ for tools.

    Look at:
    http://www.paragoncode.com/toolmaking/mortise_chisels/

    He also sells chisels, with and without handles (Save some $$ and make your own handle).

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Squaw Valley, CA
    Posts
    203
    Try watching Ebay. Over time, you should be able to get at least a 1/4 and a 3/8 old mortise chisel. I get them for around $15 and they seem to work just fine.
    SHERWUD in the beautiful sierra foothills East of Fresno, CA

  14. #14
    I like the Two Cherries bench chisels and mortise chisels. The mortise chisels are very stout and make choping mortises by hand a fairly quick endevor. Unless I'm making a bunch of mortises (i.e. Art's and Craft's style) I hand chop them instead of using a benchtop mortising machine, because it's faster, and more acurate to chop them by hand than machine. The Two Cherries chisels are very good, even though they are a bit pricy atleast you don't need many (I mostly use one).

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Wendell Wilkerson View Post
    Highland Hardware (www.tools-for-woodworking.com) lists Hirsch mortise chisels in their catalog. The prices look almost the same as Fine-Tools but shipping should be considerably less. If you get some of these, let us know how they work out. I have the Hirsch mortise chisels on my "tools-I-need-to-buy-someday" list.

    Wendell
    Anyone ever try the Narex Chisels from Highland Hardware? I would like some but cannot afford $65 each. I see the Narex are listed at $40 for a set of three. Anyone know if they are junk or worth considering?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •