Buckeye Burl HF

[Jim Ketron]

Well the Head has appered!



Carole this collar is only 1/4 tall so I think clunky is a little of a harsh word to use to describe it. The edge is under 1/8 tall, I'm not fond of the Ogee shape on collars unless the piece has a large flat area leading up to the collar, so I decided not to use an Ogee shape on this one.
I looked in your album and I see several of your collars almost the same proportions as mine but much taller so I really don’t see exactly what you are referring too. I have never met someone who is so quick to parrot information that you’ve have just learned yourself!
So don’t take yourself too seriously!

[Don Baer]

Recently Mark Singer posted in the design forum about offering comments on critiques to posts and I found it very interesting. Mark was asking wether he should give an honest opinion.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40699
Now personaly I like the piece as posted. Barbera offered some constructive critisism and the artist took offense. Now admittedly some of Barberas commets about folks on SMC creek beeing yes men were IMHO out of line the critique was not. While Jim may not have to accept the critiques as presented I feel that by posting the pix of his piece he is leaving himself open to the opinions of others.

Jim,
when you said
"Critiques, suggestions, and opinions are appreciated and welcome!"

You took off the gloves and opened yourself up to any critique that comes along. Like it or not.

[Carole Valentine]

Jim, as I have said over and over again, that is just MY OPINION. You asked for opinions. Why, I will never know. You seem to only want ones that agree with yours. If you like that style of collar, use it for heavens sake. It's your work. I think that style looks great on some of your other pieces. You can choose to accept or ignore other peoples opinions. But darn it, don't get so uptight when you ask what others think and you get a response that might not be exactly what you want to hear!
As for my album, there are some pretty awful pieces in there, and it's fun to go back and look at them and think "yuck!" and I will probably feel the same way a year from now about pieces I do today, but comparing your collars to mine simply on the basis of overall height is really not reasonable since they are different styles. I lean towards concave, you seem to lean towards convex. Again, in MY OPINION and in MY OPINION ONLY, a concave (ogee) collar can support more overall height (not edge thickness). Hmmm...wonder who I am parroting there? Could it be that it is simply MY OPINION??? My opinion, your opinion. That's what it boils down to doesn't it? And since it's your piece, and since I really don't care one way or the other, lets just both go back to our chosen hangouts. From now on, I will know that when you say "Critiques, suggestions, and opinions are appreciated and welcome!" you don't mean mine.

[Don Baer]

I will know that when you say "Critiques, suggestions, and opinions are appreciated and welcome!" you don't mean mine.

Carol,
I always look forward to your posts and realy like to see what you have to offer. please when folks ask for a critique feel free to give YOUR opinion we can all use some constructive criticism. Ii also would like to see more of your work as well as Babs work. As a matter of fact after looking at all 160 posts by babs I can't find 1 post where she has shown anything she has truned.

[Jim Ketron]

Carole did I say anything about your critique on WOW? No!
There was only 2 posts on there as usual because I’m not in the clique over there.
So I ask on WC and got a few more critiques. Is that wrong?
Seems to me you got upset by me asking there if it was clunky, you and your buddy was trying to stir up some trouble over here about that post so after feeling like I was being attacked I just gave my opinion on the matter. I can take a critique but what is just the opinion of one? I wanted more!

So what this boils down too is this 2 diff prides getting in the way
Defending my turning and you defending your critique!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I think we need to spend some qualitly time in front of our lathes......... just my opinion, mind you .....

[Barbara Gill]

Don, I apologize if my answer seemed offensive. I never would have brought the subject up except Travis asked my why I didn't post here. It was a legitimate question that deserved an honest answer.

An "educated opinion" has nothing to do with a person's level of education. It has to do with their experience in the subject in question.

I think if you go back and look at the last 100 pictures of work where opinions were requested, you will find that dispite poor form, tearout, etc. the constructive comments are few and far between. The people who have the ability to help each of us become better turners are not steping up on this site. Do you wonder why? There was nothing in my originial post that was mean spirited or out of line yet look at the reactions. That in itself should be very revealing. Everyone is king and nobody wants to tell him he is not wearing cloths.

[Keith Burns]

An "educated opinion" has nothing to do with a person's level of education. It has to do with their experience in the subject in question.

You are exactly right Barbara, it has to do with the experience in the subject. After reviewing your album over there, it is obvious to me that you have no experience in the subject. When someone with knowledge and experience who is a much better turner than I am critiques my work, I accept it and learn from it. Even when someone with no experience says they don't like something I've done, thats fine, too. But for you to come here with the "goddess" holier than thou "I'm a professional" attitude you came with, it is just arrogant and wrong.

[Andy Hoyt]

You're right Barbara. Quite often pieces are shown here that warrant a critique for any number of reasons. Occasionally that critique is formally requested, but more often than not it's only implied or is somewhat vague. What makes all of Sawmill Creek such a terrific place is the degree of honor and respect accorded to all regardless of how long they've been a member; the frequency of their participation; or the quality of their work. This is something I consider absolutely fabulous; and more to the point, conspicuously absent in many other forums.

One also has to consider that the SMC Turning Forum is populated with folks of all skill levels. I believe that the beginning turner benefits immensely by simply hanging out with those who possess more talent. And those who already have the talent, skill, and experience enjoy the spiritual benefit from careful and insightful nurturing of the beginners. It really is a family.

What you don't see in these threads are comments that have the potential to embarass or belittle anyone. But guess what? The comments (harsh or cruel or potentially harmful as the may be) still get made - but it's done privately. And more often than not this results in an ongoing private dialog (and friendship) with lasting value to both parties.

Don Baer correctly referred you to a thread where the topic of how to post a constructive comment on a piece of work with dubious qualities is discussed. It should be required reading for all.

And with all this said, I would like to point out that participation in this forum without posting one's own work does tend to have problems with the establishment of credibility. Having a body of work on another forum doesn't cut the mustard (or the mayo for that matter). WOW is exclusive; WC is graphically challenged; and the rest of them just tend to raise one's blood pressure too much. The vast majority of the members here don't bother with these other forums.

Okay, I've said my piece - disjointed as it may be. I hope this helps. And yes; comments and a critique of this post are invited.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

................. And yes; comments and a critique of this post are invited.

Well then Andy, I just have to say that I hate you new Avatar, it has been bugging me for sometime, but I just did not know how to tell you............

[Chris Barton]

OK, so I think I know why we don't have any women posting here anymore...

[Chris Barton]

Also, I am having terrible problems with blank pages again and other technical issues. Hmmm...

[Mark Cothren]

Well, I’ve had some time to simmer down on this a bit… good sense tells me to just leave it alone and let it die, but I’m like Jethro Bodeen when Jed said about him, “If brains was lard that boy wouldn’t have enough to grease a skillet.”

I’ve also had some private online conversations with some of you and that gave me some perspective. I appreciate that.

There are a few things that happened that I wish would not have. But in the end I’ve learned some things – some I already knew, but had to relearn. Most of these deal directly with this thread, but some of them were just brought to mind as I pondered these things.

(1) It’s hard to communicate true sentiments, thoughts, and feelings online. It’s also too easy to misinterpret what someone is trying to say. Best practice (for me anyway) should be to always give the benefit of the doubt.
(2) Opinions are like armpits. Most everybody has one or two, and sometimes they stink – mine included. Just because someone’s opinion differs doesn’t make it right or wrong.
(3) You don’t score any points with the home team by talkin’ down to them – especially when you’re sittin’ around their campfire. It happened in this case – both ways. Poor form on both parts – guilty as charged, I am.
(4) Tough criticism is hard to take and we need to work on it. I am TERRIBLE at receiving negative – but constructive – feedback. Even when it’s given in a helpful way. That’s nothing but pride. Sometimes hard for me to swallow that big sucker. It’s something I need to continue to work on.
(5) “Attaboys” may not help make you a better turner, but they don’t necessarily make you worse, either. A little encouragement to someone who is trying their best doesn’t hurt, in my opinion (there’s that word again).
(6) If you post a piece and ask me for honest feedback, if I like it and don’t have any suggestions as to how you might make it better, then “Looks great to me!” is acceptable feedback.
(7) If you ask for feedback/suggestions/critiques/opinions/etc, then you better mean it because you’re likely to get it. And an opinion is just that – an opinion. A differing one doesn’t make it – or your’s – right or wrong.
(8) A word you choose as a descriptor – like “clunky” – may not mean the same thing to someone else as it does to you. Before I post next time I need to reread what I have typed and make sure the meaning is clear.
(9) We are all (at least that’s the way I feel) here to share and learn.

I’m not pointing my finger at anybody else. Well, okay, maybe I am. But when I point one at you I’m pointing four back at myself (whoever came up with that corny saying anyway?)…J

I’m just trying to say I’d like to apologize to everyone who has it coming from me. My momma didn’t raise me this way. My only excuse is the effect of the Moxie fumes still lingers. That and the summer heat is getting to me…

This is a great forum/community/group. We all still have stuff to learn. I hope everybody – I mean EVERYBODY – continues to participate here.

[Shelley Bolster]

The message is gone, so am I

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Atta-boy Mark

(sorry, I could not resist)