Dovetail saw help needed

[Nick Clayton]

I'm taking a class in September on hand cutting dovetails and need to purchase a saw for class. I've done a bit of research and have come to the conclusion that I need your expert/experienced advice. Having never cut a dovetail by hand and not knowing how much of it I am going to be doing (depends on how I enjoy the class I suppose) I'd rather not spend a small fortune on a dovetail saw. On the other hand I hate having tools that do not perform; I think a good example for reference is that I'm perfectly happy with my Irwin/Marples chisels.

So I've found a saw made in Sweden by Paragon that is sold by Garrett Wade that has similar geometry to the Adria and Lie-Nielsen saws and costs a mere $50 instead of $130. I've looked at the Pax/Lynx and Spear & Jackson saws, but the kerfs are over 50% wider than the previously mentioned saw (from what little I understand of cutting dovetails this is not good) and again at $100 cost considerably more than the Paragon.

I guess my question is has anyone had or heard of anyone with experience, good or bad, with the Paragon saw? If not could you give a beginner some tutelage in the art of buying a dovetail saw?

Cheers,
Nick

[Mark Singer]

Nick at $113 , I like the lie Neilsen dovetail saw...I have been using it and for a Western saw....it is very good...The Adria is also highly rated...I have some great old ones...problem is they need to be straight and sharpened correctly, if they are tweaked no good!

[Mike Weaver]

Nick at $113 , I like the lie Neilsen dovetail saw...I have been using it and for a Western saw....it is very good...The Adria is also highly rated...I have some great old ones...problem is they need to be straight and sharpened correctly, if they are tweaked no good!

Nick,
I agree with Mark - I have the predecesor to the LN DT Saw (when it was Independance Tools) and it's great.

I haven't used the Adria, but I've only heard great things about it.

This might help too:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...light=dovetail

Hope that helps,
-Mike

[Hank Knight]

Nick,

Many saws don't perform well "off the rack" because they are poorly sharpened by the manufacturer, particularly the inexpensive ones. Unless a saw is bent or has some other structural defect, most, including the inexpensive ones will improve dramatically with a good sharpening. I've never used the Paragon you mention, but I've seen them in the Garrett Wade catalog. It looks like a pretty good saw. My recommendation is to buy it and try it. If you can't get it to hold a line after some practice, find a good saw sharpener and get it sharpened and set properly (you can learn to sharpen it yourself later). For dovetail use, you want it sharpened for a rip cut with a minimal set. My guess is that you will be happy with it.

Hank

[Harold Beck]

Nick,

I have a LN Gents saw that I just love. That said a lot of folks don't like the Gent's style (straight handle) and the thinness of the blade. If I was taking a class in dovetails and didn't want to spend $100+ on a saw for the class I would probably look at an inexpensive Japanese style saw (cuts on pull stroke). There are several inexpensive ones that may say cut very well.

Enjoy the class. A class on hand cut dovetails and mortices is where I got hooked.

HB

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Nick, I have found no real difference in operation between an expensive dovetail saw such as LN or Adria and a cheaper alternative such as the Paragon you mention AFTER the cheaper saw is sharpened properly. Unless you have the skill to sharpen it or the time to send it to a professional, you'll be better served and have more fun in your class with the LN or similar saw. LN and Adria saws are finished better and look and feel nicer than their cheaper cousins which is as important to me as the way they perform.

Also be advised that there are different ways to sharpen a saw and there can be dramatic difference in the way one cuts. Generally speaking, an aggressive saw will be harder to start in the kerf than a slower cutting saw.

[Michael Cody]

I turn mostly, but cut a few dovetails now and then, don't discount the Lee Valley saws... I have the first one (no guide just the saw), works very well and I've heard good things from others about the second one. I also used the LN saw in a class from Frank Klausz and it was superb. You can't miss with Lee Valley service either and they carry the same western style saws that you find in Garret Wade catalog.

Dovetail saw

Dozukime (Japanese Dovetail)

[Robert Rozaieski]

Nick, I have both the Paragon dovetail saw and tenon saw (larger version). They both come filed crosscut which is not ideal for dovetails. I already had a vintage Atkins backsaw filed crosscut so I had both Paragon saws re-filed rip and given minimal set similar to that on the LN and Adria saws. They both cut excelent now. The dovetail saw I use for dovetails (duh!) and the larger rip saw I use for cutting tenon cheeks. The only thing I don't like about them is that the handle is a little beefy but I'm going to change that with a little rasp and file work and customize both saw handles to fit my hand. Even with the re-filing and setting, both saws combined cost me about what a new LN dovetail saw costs. I definately recommend them but only if you have the factory teeth filed off and new ones filed in rip. I think I paid about $25 to have both saws done.

[Maurice Metzger]

Nick, I use a very inexpensive saw, a "Thick Kerf" push stroke (western) 18TPI Zona Razor Saw, model 35-380, that cost $8.50:

z35-380_200px.jpg

I did touch it up with a file, but it worked OK before that. The manufacturer calls it a "Thick Kerf" saw to distinguish it from other model making saws, it's really not that thick, the kerf is .020".

Don't be intimidated by suggestions that you sharpen an inexpensive saw, for me it was just using a 4" XX slim file (I think) to clean up the factory edges.

Maurice

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

WHy not just try it and see how you do? Give it a few hours and you will be a dab hand.

The class may increase your learning curve by giving you a "technique" but you can learn all the technique by simply reading a bit then doing it.

Try these sites:
--http://home.nj.rr.com/afoust/dovetails.html--
--http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer17.html--
--http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/htmlfile/dt1-e.html--

[James Mittlefehldt]

My .02 worth. I have the Pax dopvetail saw that Lee Valley sell, I beleive it is $76. US, I bought it filed for a rip cut, and have used it for nearly a yaer and have not as yet touched it with a file. It is a good saw and the back is extremely stiff and gives a great deal of control. You can use it out of the box and it is more reeasonable than the LN.

Once you try it and find you like this sort of stuff, like there is any doubt, you may very well want to move up to say and Adria, LN, or dare I say it a Wenzloff.

I paid $99 dollars Canadian for the Pax and frankly after struggling with cheaper saws feel it is more than worth the extra expense.

[Alan DuBoff]

Wenzloff & Sons.

Nothing beats a handcrafted tool, custom made for you, esepcially at around the same price a LN or Adria sells for.

EDIT: here's a pair I use.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Nick. The width of your kerf does not matter when you are cutting dovetails. What does matter [to make sawing easier] is that the saw does not have too much set. This allows the blade to wobble in it's own cut and makes it easy to veer off line. So check to see what the set is and not the kerf. I would recommend buying a inexpensive saw or even try to borrow one for the class. During the class see if you can try some other peoples saws and see what you like. Good luck. Peter

[Steve Wargo]

I'm partial to the LN saws, and have 4 of them, but I agree with others, and really wish I had a Wenzloff original. Good luck with the decision making process.

[Rob Millard]

Nick,

My first saw was a $9.95 Stanley, that I filed to a rip configuration and removed all the set. I now have a couple LN’s but I still use that Stanley quite often (today in fact). If you want to go the Stanley route, but aren't up to the sharpening, I'd be glad to sharpen it for you.

Rob Millard