Tool buying advice

[Nathan Hoffman]

I am setting up my shop and need some advice from some woodworkers with more experience than I have. I currently own a good Makita circular saw and a new PC cordless drill, some hand tools, a Paslode finish nailer, and an el cheapo Chicago Electric 3 hp plunge router. I am going to be trimming out my new house, but plan to make some flooring and plenty of furniture in the future. My question is this - with my limited budget, what are the tools I need to start with? A tablesaw is a no brainer, and I'll need a good miter saw for the trim. I also have a lot of rough cherry, walnut, and honey locust wood to be used, so I'll probably need a jointer. Are there certain brands which would be better than others? What kind of router table/ shaper setup is best? Thanks!

[Noah Alkinburgh]

Nathan,

The big four you would want are a TS, Band Saw, Jointer and Planer. With that being said, you just shot 4 months of your mortgage payments or more buying those

If your main goal right now is trimming out your house you could get by with a good mitersaw i.e. a slider or big 12". That will crosscut most stuff you would need too and do your corners etc. I would also highly, highly recomend you get at least a low angle block plane...a good one if you don't want to mess getting it set up. This will really help you get the perfect fit on your moldings...

Now if you are going to be painting, the perfect fit is not so important you just use the carpenters best friend: CAULK

Good luck and let us know how the projects go.

Noah

[Dave Hammelef]

Engage that brain. The table saw being a no brainer, only if you look in America. If I started my shop today, I would have to give a long hard thought about a table saw. It does alot of things ok, but alot of the tools you mention do those same things better (depending on definition of better). THink this way, what size and condition of wood are you going to buy, and what steps are you going to have to take it through to get your finished product. Then think about after doing that with all the things you want to build, what steps are needed to be performed and what tools best cover your needs. A euro-multi machine (like a rojek spelling is wrong) might be the best choice, however a festool saw and rail system might be a better choice if your working with panel goods and are alone in the shop.

[mike malone]

I am setting up my shop and need some advice from some woodworkers with more experience than I have. I Thanks!

Nathan
Noah is right on the money (TS, BS, PLaner and jointer) Just get used US made stuff and you can always resell them and get your money back....not so with most of the foreign stuff. Have fun, Mike

[Ted Shrader]

I am setting up my shop and need some advice from some woodworkers with more experience than I have. . . . . A tablesaw is a no brainer, and I'll need a good miter saw for the trim. I also have a lot of rough cherry, walnut, and honey locust wood to be used, so I'll probably need a jointer. Are there certain brands which would be better than others? What kind of router table/ shaper setup is best? Thanks!

Nathan -

An oft discussed question. The limiting factor in most all cases is the budget. Assuming you are like most of the rest of us and can't stroke a check for the whole shootin' match at once, you must prioritize.

Noah's suggestion about the basic four is a good one. Dave suggestion about multi-purpose machines helps cover those four. But what are your limits? How can you do a given task? For most woodworking tasks there are at least three different ways to accomplish any given task. Each way with it's own merits.

With your priorities in mind, your order of "major" tool purchases will sort itself out. My recommendation is buy the best quality tools you can afford and possibly forego other "major" tool purchases in order to get a good quality tool now. You will save money in the long run by not being forced to "re-buy" your tools as you replace them. Good quality tools are easier to work with and will last a lifetime with proper care.

Ted

[Nathan Hoffman]

Nathan -

An oft discussed question. The limiting factor in most all cases is the budget. Assuming you are like most of the rest of us and can't stroke a check for the whole shootin' match at once, you must prioritize.

Ted

I definitely need to economize, and my first priority is to trim the house, and that includes making some of my own trim. After that, it will be making the flooring out of the honey locust wood, followed by basic furniture/ some cabinet type work as the need arises. I forgot to mention that I have access to my friend's 20" planer, so I won't need one of those right away. I may be able to buy a radial arm saw from my brother for cheap - any downside to those things? With all the router/shaper type work I need to do, what is the best method? Thanks for all the input!

[Wes Bischel]

I started with a good old hand miterbox, then bought a power miterbox - don't forget the good old hand tools when budgets are tight.
I would also echo looking for used iron. If you have any mechanical abilities - or have friends that do, your whole shop can be fitted for very little money. My 30 year old Rockwell TS was had for $100 - after 13 years of flawless service, I just put new bearings in it for a total of $15. My TomLee bandsaw (60 years old) was free for the taking (trash day find) New tires, grease and a good coat of paint was all it needed. Keep your eyes open, and put out the word with friends and family, you will be surprised what shows up - though, not necessarily in the order you might expect.

Wes


Noah said:
"Now if you are going to be painting, the perfect fit is not so important you just use the carpenters best friend: CAULK "

A quote heard from a contractor in NJ - (needs to be said with a
real good NJ accent)
"A little caulk, a little paint, makes a job what it ain't"

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Nathan,

Welcome to the Creek. I agree the a TS would not be on the high priority list. If you look at the current Fine Woodworking article of going from rought to finish stock it is only used in the final step. You may want to try the Pens state industries saw guide for your current saw for sheet goods.

Try as many tools as possible before you buy. Take classes at the local community college or vo-tech or Woodcraft to try things out. Wfere are you. Several people like to show off their shops and expound the virtues of their machines.

One word of advise:
Set up every thing the day you get it and wait until you have a specific job for a tool. This helps find any problem while you still have the reciept and the sales person remembers you. DAMHIKT (Don't
ask me how I know this) Don't be afraid to ask what an accronym means.

Have fun and be safe.


Good luck

[Brad Schafer]

I definitely need to economize, and my first priority is to trim the house, and that includes making some of my own trim. After that, it will be making the flooring out of the honey locust wood, followed by basic furniture/ some cabinet type work as the need arises. I forgot to mention that I have access to my friend's 20" planer, so I won't need one of those right away. I may be able to buy a radial arm saw from my brother for cheap - any downside to those things? With all the router/shaper type work I need to do, what is the best method? Thanks for all the input!

Nathan -

As with all things, YMMV, but ...

A few years back, I did something similar to what you're talking about. I built (and trimmed out) my own house. All interior is Ohio-grown red oak. I milled all trim (crown mould, plate rail, base, case, stairs), and also built all doors and door cases, and window shelves for each window (23 of 'em). I didn't want to tackle floors due to volume (1600+ sqft), so I the sawmill hooked me up with a local guy who had a mill. I bought the T&G bits in exchange for him milling the wood, and it worked out pretty well.

I did the whole thing with 3 "large" tools:

a) an old (1950s) Craftsman 10" table saw
b) an old (1950s) Craftsman 6" jointer
c) an old (1960s) Craftsman 10" radial arm saw

Also had a Dewalt ROS and (you guessed it) an old Craftsman 4" belt sander. Oh - also had an old Craftsman router, but I only used it for a few round-over operations.

(This was all stuff my grandpa had accumulated over the years; so I didn't have to purchase anything outside of a few drills and the ROS).

I had two moulding head sets (1 3-cutter, 1 1-cutter), an 8" dado stack (yup - Craftsman) and a variety of blades ... and I milled EVERYTHING at the table saw. I could probably have acquired a shaper or a decent router/table setup, but the TS worked just dandy for me.

The only difficulty with cutting moulding on the saw was profile consistency (particularly when a profile called for multiple passes and cuts), but you get creative when you have to.

On the RAS: if the thing has been beat, it might be difficult to get "trued up" or get to stay true. Once mine was set, it did a nice job, but you might be better for the aggravation to just get a nice SCMS and spend the time doing something else. Oh - DON'T rip with it. DAMHIKT.

I'm not recommending this necessarily, just letting you know that it can be done with decent results.

Best of luck,


b

[Nathan Hoffman]

Nathan -

As with all things, YMMV, but ...

I had two moulding head sets (1 3-cutter, 1 1-cutter), an 8" dado stack (yup - Craftsman) and a variety of blades ... and I milled EVERYTHING at the table saw. I could probably have acquired a shaper or a decent router/table setup, but the TS worked just dandy for me.

The only difficulty with cutting moulding on the saw was profile consistency (particularly when a profile called for multiple passes and cuts), but you get creative when you have to.

I'm not recommending this necessarily, just letting you know that it can be done with decent results.

Best of luck,


b

A couple of qestions:
- What does YMMV mean?
- Since I do not have a router table (or any router bits to speak of) or a table saw, which is the best to get now? I intend to get both eventually, but I can't spend a lot right now.
- Should I consider a small shaper since I have so much modling to do?


Thanks for all the responses

[Noah Alkinburgh]

A couple of qestions:
- What does YMMV mean?
- Since I do not have a router table (or any router bits to speak of) or a table saw, which is the best to get now? I intend to get both eventually, but I can't spend a lot right now.
- Should I consider a small shaper since I have so much modling to do?


Thanks for all the responses

YMMV = Your Milage May Vary

a router table you can build yourself out of some plywood.

router bits well that depends alot on what you want to do and may cost you as much as a good tables saw (no joke)

I would buy a good plunge router (read high horsepower and amps with variable speed) and build a router table for it before I bought a shaper...if you are thinking the little delta "shaper" it is just a permanently mounted router base in a cabinet. You will get much more versatility out of the router.

A router table can be as simple as an old counter top with a cutout for the router. Just needs to be flat.

Noah

[Jason Roehl]

One thing that should be said here is this. First, figure out WHAT you want to BUILD and HOW you want to build it. That will help you determine tool purchase order. It makes no sense to buy a bandsaw if all you are going to build is rectangular picture frames. With all that being said, I would say that the router is probably the most versatile power tool, with a tablesaw being a close second.

[Nathan Hoffman]

I need to make and install trim for my house, and then make flooring. After that it will be basic furniture/cabinet type work. My question really is about the best way to make the moldings and flooring: router table, shaper or table saw witha molding head.

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Nathan
In addition to all the good advice above
Get two really good saw blades - one for the miter saw - one for the table saw; if you are going to cut alot of plywood, then two blades for the table saw. I use FORREST blades and they give me a really smoooooooooooth cut.
The first piece of big equipment that was purchased was a 12" Dewalt miter saw (because the price was right) and also a Forrest blade for it (in the store at the same time $100.00). Got it home - took off the standard blade and stashed it under the workbench and put on the Forrest blade. Haven't seen the origonal blade since - wonder if it's still under the workbench.

Now that goes for all you blades, for hand planes or saws - get the best and you'll get a "fine" cut. Don't skimp!
Daniel

[Dave Hammelef]

I need to make and install trim for my house, and then make flooring. After that it will be basic furniture/cabinet type work. My question really is about the best way to make the moldings and flooring: router table, shaper or table saw witha molding head.

Well Nathan, I will try to answer your question since your title seems to have misdirected everyone.

1st you want to make your own trim. What design. Some designs can be done simply on a table saw, others need at least a router in a table, and some really should be done with a shaper. Of course you need to get the boards to the width you need can be purchased that way or cut down on tablesaw, or bandsaw, could be done (not recomended with router or shaper).

2nd Installing trim, I would say a good miter saw (compound if doing crown molding) and a pancake compressor with brad nailer.

3rd Flooring, what type of wood are you starting with a log, rough cut lumber, or surfaced 4 sides (S4S). If S4S you need a tounge a groove bit for a router or shaper, or could be done on a tablesaw. Rough cut, you need to add a jointer and planer to get to S4S. A log add a bandsaw to get to rough cut. A tree add a chainsaw to get to log.

Of course we have not talked about sanding or finishing yet.

I do not mean to scare you away, but to avoid the It depends or just people shouting out tools, a very good description of what your going to do needs to be discussed. I wish someone would have made me sit down and think out the entire wood processing steps I was going to do and/or wanted to do. I might not own a 6" jointer if I had really thought it out. I use it occasionally but find it easier/ faster to buy stuff Thats flat from mill (skip jointed) then just use my thickness planer, a bandsaw for resawing it would have done me alot more good then the jointer.

dave