Attaboys and critiques

[Earl Eyre]

Thanks for bringing up the topic. When I first got involved in some of the woodturning forums I offered honest and open critiques but was often the only one to do so, so I quit. When I was deeply involved in bonsai I belonged to a group that was tremendously helpful. If you asked for a crituque, you go one--often with people actually going in to programs like Photoshop and redrawing your bonsai to look like their idea of what it should look like. On that forum, you were expected to only ask for critiques when you really wanted it because others took it seriously and put a lot of work into their responses. Over on WOW they tried a Critique section but it still hasn't really brought about helpful learning. Maybe because their are so many people involved in the woodturning forums that it is just impossible--I don't know.

But I do know that when I was doing bonsai those critiques were true learning situations. How that could be transfered, I don't know, but I wish it could.

I know I find myself getting less involved in all the woodturning forums because I really want to learn, but often that doesn't seem to happen. The forums tend to become either chit chat or repititous. I tend to think that is inevitable because of the numbers of people involved and new members joining every day. The bonsai forum was quite small and it is a very limited number of people who do it...

Just some thoughts on a challenging subject...;.

Earl

[Dennis Peacock]

Well...let me jump in here and say sumpin'........

I for one don't feel like I'm good enough to ask for a critique.
I for one don't feel like I'm always ready for negative feedback.
I for one can't translate the "tone" of what was typed.
I have learned from video's.
I have learned from trial and error
I have learned from visiting with other turners at various BBQ's
I have learned by reading forum posts
I have learned about form and finish by reading forum posts

Pirmarily, I don't post a lot of comments because what I usually say isn't what I really meant. It's hard to say "just the right words" so you don't come across "wrong". Know what I mean?

[Doug Jones]

For what its worth,
All I want to know is, what do you see when you look at what I made. If you like it, what is it you like about it. If you don't like it, what is it that you don't like about it. To each their own, one man's trash is another man's treasure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so on and so on and so on.

[Don Orr]

This thread and this forum have a lot of good things happening. Decent people having real conversations about interesting things.

The encouragement (atta boys) offered here is outstanding. So many beginners make tremendous progress simply by not getting discouraged. Continuing to try new things and practice is the way we all get better at anything.

The support offered here is also outstanding. Ask a question and get several answers and ideas from many different people.

The humor here can be absolutely contagious!

The subject of critique can be a tricky one. I tend to shy away from critiquing peoples work since I don't feel qualified to do so. I don't have a degree in art or design or a background in the classics. I have read about and looked at lots of information on form and design. I have been to Gallery Critiques at symposiums given by qualified people. I have been to demos on design and form to try to inprove my work. NONE of this makes me qualified to tell someone their piece is good or bad. What I can tell someone is whether I like it or not and maybe offer some reasons why. If someone is thrilled that their piece survived the process and came off the lathe intact, who am I to put that down if a curve is not "perfect"? As many have already said, this forum is as much about Learning as it is about Turning.

Criticism in one thing, CONSTRUCTIVE critcism is another. Encouragement is something entirely different in my opinion.

I have the dubious "honor" of presenting the instant gallery show-n-tell at our turning club meetings. We have a wide range of abilities and skill levels-just like here. We are fortunate to have some very skilled and talented turners in our club-just like here. I do NOT critique the pieces. I simply hold them up, ask who made it, what kind of wood and finish, and what were the challenges of the piece. I give out a lot of "AttaBoys & Girls". I happen to be one of the more experienced turners in our club and get asked questions about tecnique often, which I am happy to answer to the best of my ability. I don't usually offer much if someone asks for a critique. Maybe a few simple suggestions or comments, but nothing in depth. Only RARELY during the show-n-tell will I single out a particular piece as special. I do this to help the less experienced turners get an idea of why a special piece is special.

Critiques on a forum like this can be difficult at best. Photos don't usually show an accurate representation of the piece, written words can't express the tone or inflection of someone's voice or body language or facial expression. I do however think a critique from someone qualified has a place here. For example, I would trust and respect commentary from someone like Bill Grumbine because of his obvious skill, knowledge and experience. This is how he makes his living-he doesn't eat if his work is not of high quality. Comments from me have very little merit. I use Bill as an example here because I have met him and respect and admire him and his work. He gets straight to the point without a lot of baloney.

Sorry this is so long and rambling. Maybe you can tell this subject strikes a chord with me. I feel critiques need to be asked for when wanted, and taken with the intent offered-to help. I really like the line some use that their opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. And also remember that comments given are just that-opinions.

So keep turning, keep learning, have fun, and be safe!

[Lee DeRaud]

The subject of critique can be a tricky one. I tend to shy away from critiquing peoples work since I don't feel qualified to do so. I don't have a degree in art or design or a background in the classics.

I don't either, but two simple questions help me focus in on what matters:

1. Would I be willing to give that piece to someone whose opinion I care about?

2. Does that piece inspire me to try to make one like it?

I'll leave any further analysis to art critics.

[Don Orr]

...food for thought Lee. This kind of discussion really gets people thinking!

[John Timberlake]

I agree with Bill. The only time I feel free to give an real negative comments is when someone asks for them AND are in the design phase. No one wants to hear that they have just put a lot of time and effort into something that nobody likes. At the design stage, they only have lines on a piece of paper - great time for constructive criticism or to ask for opinions amond designs. I usually like to point out good points and just stay silent on the things I don't like.

[Mark Cothren]

I'm an expert. If any of y'all want an expert opinion just ask me for it.



NOT!!!!!!!!!!

It's a tough subject for sure. My rule of thumb? If you ask for an opinion and I have one? You'll get it. Otherwise I'll stay behind my keyboard eatin' Nutter Butters and drinkin' sweet tea...

If I ask for feedback, opinions, critiques, etc... then I honestly would love to hear it. I don't care how you word it. Even if you just say, "I don't know why for sure, but I just ain't too crazy about that". If I have a problem with how you word something, I'll talk to you about it privately and we'll clear it up. You can feel free to do the same with me.

Now if you talk about my momma, then I may just hire Joe "The Mule" Tonich to come pay you a visit...

My thoughts are if you want a critique or feedback, then post pics from a few different angles and then ask for feedback.

Good discussion. Great points being made.

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Otherwise I'll stay behind my keyboard eatin' Nutter Butters and drinkin' sweet tea...

Mark... I forget... Do you drink Georgia, Virginia, Kentucky, Illinois, or New York sweet tea? (when you get to Maine, I think sweet tea is one grain of sugar per ten gallons, and that doesn't count.)

[Andy Hoyt]

Sorry Henry. Up here it's one part Muscatel and one part Moxie.

Urpppppp!

Critique that!

[thomas prevost]

AS mostly a lurker who gets on almost every other day with only a few posts, this is my critique. I feel I am average with the tools, but I seem to have a very poor eye for form. I lurk to see what others have done- angle, radi, height vs diameter etc.

I have often turned gorgous wood into shiney globs or balls. Twice I posted with projects I was having trouble with hoping some one would critque and help me "save" or not make the same mistake twice. Even my 4yr granddaughter could see it was ugly, All I got was attaboys. Though I have to agree, many post to say "boy, am I really proud of this." negative comments here are hurtful even though well intentioned.

I love pictures that show form, thickness, etc. Wish Bill would post more of his work so we can learn from his eye on form.