Auto Service : Brakes and Rotors...

[Terre Hooks]

You sure about that, Bud?

I mean with the advances in technology of metals and all, shouldn't semi-metalic pads be just as good as ceramics?

[Bud Zysk]

You sure about that, Bud?

I mean with the advances in technology of metals and all, shouldn't semi-metalic pads be just as good as ceramics?

As a paper weight maybe

<one thing this place needs is better smiley guys>

[Scott Henderson]

Smiley guys work better than ceramic??

[Jon Healy]

What everyone else said...plus -

As an alternate to the vacuum bleeder tool, there are these things called Speed Bleeders. These are a normal looking bleeder but they have little check valves inside them. Set up and open them like you would normally bleed and instead of having a second person opening and closing the bleeder, you just pump away. The little check valve opens and closes as you pump. Buy, install and leave them on. They work pretty well.

[Chris Padilla]

Roy,

What vehicle will you be redoing the brakes on?

[Al Willits]

Half as in front only, or rear only, don't mix pad designs is what I'm saying.

You sounded as you were plugging ceramics, then mentioned the metalics being very good and lasting almost as long as ceramics, was a bit confusing.

Al .. who thinks drag cars don't work well on the street....

[Bud Zysk]

There's actually a simpler way to bleed brakes without a second person, although a second pair of eyes helps.

Take a clear glass jar, like a small pickle jar and fill it ¼ full with clean, new brake fluid. Open the bleeder screw and attach a piece of clear plastic hose. Stick one end on the bleeder screw and the other in the jar, making sure that the end is submerged.

_Slowly_ press the brake pedal down to the floor and almost as slowly let it come back up to the top. Pushing down forces the air out. When you allow the pedal to rise, it draws the clean fluid in from the jar. If you push rapidly or too hard, you'll not only risk foaming the fluid (not good at all) but you may also blow the hose off the bleeder. Letting the pedal rise too quickly will almost assuredly cause the fluid to foam, making the bleeding process that much more difficult.

[Bud Zysk]

Na, I wasn't plugging anything, really. However, it really is OK to vary brake material from axle to axle. It's side to side variations that must be avoided.

[Terre Hooks]

Bud,

you sure you aren't the Plant Manager for Raybestos® or something?

[Bud Zysk]

I assure you I know nothing about horticulture.

[Al Willits]

"""""""
it really is OK to vary brake material from axle to axle.
""""

I don't think so, it will work, but pads of different friction rating will alter the front/ rear percentage of braking, thus changing the designed properties of the braking system...to each their own, but I'll stick to like for like, thank you...

Al

[Chris Padilla]

I work on my own stuff...even on my BMWs (when I can) and one of the first things I did was change only the front pads to less dusty ones. BMWs are known for unbelievably dusty brakes...you have to clean your rimes 2-3x a week...crazy!

Anyway, I've been like this for at least 50,000 miles and the rears (original to the car, 70k miles total) are probably needing a change...finally I'll put the same pads on the rears that are on the fronts.

Near as I can tell, there was no discernable change in braking but each to their own. Some change their oil religiously every 3k miles...others wait longer...but this is a whole 'nuther can o' worms!

[Roy Wall]

Roy,

What vehicle will you be redoing the brakes on?

1999 Lexus LS 400......

I got the car off a 3yr lease......went and got new toyota OEM pads right off the bat - had the old ones off to replace.........and they were at least 60% good. So I put them back on! Now, 50K later......they are finally due. They have 91k on them.

Brakes on the LS are easy to do - a very good system for switching out the pads.

All these responses have been great - and I"ll give it a go!! I was a little skeptical at first, but I have a OEM repair manual, and I don't think I"ll have a problem getting the calipers and rotor off. There is NO Pulsing in the rotor.....but I'll still get them turned this time - next time I'll just put on new rotors.....they're about $100 each OEM.

Again, thanks for all the info....... I think I can bleed the system without messing too much up!!!

[Norman Hitt]

Roy,


One thing I would add, DO NOT pry the pads away from the rotor without having the bleeder open. My shop had to buy 2 $700.00 ford antilock controllers before we learned. I don't know if forcing the fluid back through any other car will affect the controller, but its a standard rule at my shop to have the brake bleeder open before removing the pads.
Steve

There was a very good article in Popular Mechanics, seems like two or three years ago, that explained the problem you mentioned, Steve. In the article, they said that on ANY vehicle with Antilock Brakes, that the bleeder MUST be open BEFORE compressing the caliper piston. The explanation was that since brake fluid has the tendency to readily absorb moisture even from just the humidity in the air, there will almost always be some amount of water in the brake fluid, and that it tends to work it's way down to the piston, (low point I guess), and that due to the heat generated there, some rust will start to form. When you depress the Piston, to free the caliper from the rotor, you stand a very good chance of pushing rust or other debris that is in the piston back up into the antilock controller, and that IF this happens, there is "NO FIX" for this and the controller MUST be REPLACED, (at a Very High Cost, they added).

PS: Steve, that CD was pretty neat. Are you coming over for Lunch anytime Soon?

[Roy Wall]

Thanks for all the great advice fellas........

Got the pads off, new ones on.....and even took the rotors for a nice "spinny turn" for fresh, smooth metal.

A good neighbor helped with the bleeding (standard two person method) and all is well for the next 70+ K (hopefully for the car too )

Thanks guys!!!!