Plan Storage Area

[John Young]

I am a new member and voted that it is a bad idea. It is not that I do not like the idea of a plans forum. But I think that the SMC community would get better value out of a strictly picture forum. When I am searching for ideas for specific projects, I don't look for plans. I look at pictures and then get on the computer and start drawing things up. On SMC now, you have to search extensively to find posts with pictures of items you are looking for. This could simplify the process and allow people to more readily share photos.
I know this is a little off the subject. I just thought this was a good point to throw it out on the table.

[Frank Pellow]

I think this is a good idea but I have a concern. There is another forum, the one entitled ‘Woodworking Articles and Reviews’ that also sound like a good idea but that forum has very little activity.

Like the proposed ‘Plans’ forum, the ‘Woodworking Articles and Reviews’ forum depends on member submissions. But, in the entire history of Saw Mill Creek only 11 articles have been submitted and during the last year only 3 articles have been submitted.

Why will a ‘Plans’ forum not suffer the same fate?

[Jay Knoll]

Frank

I don't share your concern, let's let the members tell us if the area is valuable by their actions. Obviously the members aren't interested in writing articles/reviews (although I have read some very good reviews in other sections of the Creek that were perhaps miscategorized).

If it isn't a big deal for Aaron to do the programming then let's give it a try!

And maybe it should be plans and projects with lots of pictures!

Jay

[Larry James]

Contributors sounds good - paying for plans bad idea.

I'm sure the majority of SMC members can afford the 6 bucks. However, there are some that cannot. Frank Fusco pointed out in his post - "This would be creating classes of membership. Do we really want that?" I don't. That would be counter to the spirit of SMC.

I'm sure many of us can afford to, and have, donated more than the minimum. Would it be possible for us to earmark part of donations that exceed 6 bucks to cover a few members that cannot donate for some legitimate reason? I know of of one member who falls into this category and I bet some of you do also.

Larry

[glenn bradley]

I have quite a few commercial plans online. Sizes range from 150k to a little over 1 meg. This depends on photos, diagrams etc. Better ones are larger. I tried zipping some to see what the savings in space might be and to see if this is something we might want to require. A 500k .pdf (Adobe) type file was reduced to about 300k so, a reasonable improvement. Hope this helps.

[Larry James]

I think this is a good idea but I have a concern. There is another forum, the one entitled ‘Woodworking Articles and Reviews’ that also sound like a good idea but that forum has very little activity.

Like the proposed ‘Plans’ forum, the ‘Woodworking Articles and Reviews’ forum depends on member submissions. But, in the entire history of Saw Mill Creek only 11 articles have been submitted and during the last year only 3 articles have been submitted.

Why will a ‘Plans’ forum not suffer the same fate?

Frank, you make a good point. Drawing formats may be the "killer" for a plans forum.

After re-reading some of the posts in this thread, there are a lot of drawing formats mentioned. How many members can download and read so many different formats? I can't - would PDF be an option? PDF is available for all common operating systems and free. Would PDF files be smaller? PDF is a format listed in the SMC attachments window. If one needed the drawings in specific format they could PM the author.

Larry

EDIT: Glenn answered part of my question in the previous post.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

This would be creating classes of membership. Do we really want that?

And, a paid member might legally have grounds to protest his comments being moderated. e.g. "I paid to be here, you have no right to censure me." I'm just supposin'. Do the owners want to find out the hard way if this is the case? Methinks not.

Frank we already have a class of membership, you are a member, I'm a contributing member, but, thanks to Keith and Aaron's good will, we have the same rights at SMC, so you point about censure and such is a moot one.

We are talking about expanding the bandwidth and supplying a good service to SMC, this costs money, SMC is not NPR the money does not grow on trees to do this. If you want to think about this in another way, it is a membership drive, like public television has, in this case, pay $6 a year, and you get all these cool, useful downloadable plans, all conveniently stored for you in a special online folder, and with SMC's membership drive, you don't get the annoying commercials in the middle of your threads!!

I think that some of us are over thinking this one, yes the rules about copyright and ownership needed to be clarified, and have been, but really, this is a special corner of the Creek that only the people who support is with a small reasonable donation have access too.

In fact, all of us here at SMC are in a very special class, we all have the time and money to own a computer and to have learned how to use it, this puts us at the top of a class of people worldwide, should we start worrying about that now??

I'd be up for supplying the $6 for members who cannot honestly afford the $6 a year for membership, if Keith wants to set that up, a SMC grant of sorts, I'd kick in for that in a heartbeat, as I think SMC is very good at helping out members in need.

Well there you have it, another bit of time wasted

Sorry for the ramble.........

[Norman Hitt]

Keith, that appears to be what the majority of folks who have written comments in this thread agree to but it is not what the poll results reflect.

By the way, I am in agreement with limiting access to contributors. We need to come up with incentives to contribute and this is one such incentive. I hope that we can think of more.

Frank, I think that the reason that there seems to be a disparity in the poll results, is that many who voted thought that "Contributor" meant that only members who "Contributed Plans" to the site would have access. It probably should have been worded "Financial Contributors" in the poll and would have probably shown much different results.

I also think that it should be restricted to "Financial Contributors", (and am still really amazed that there are so many members that haven't contributed at least a Pittance to help support such a fantastic forum). I know there probably should be a mention of contributions at the Registration site, and that would probably help the matter quite a lot. I also think that the suggested $6 figure could be mentioned, BUT it should also state that larger donations would also be graciously accepted.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Sorry, comments withdrawn. They were directed to people who were not going to read them anyway.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm a member of some other forums, nothing to do with wood working, like motorcycles, for example. Most of these forums have things set up so that "Guests" (those that come and look but do not register) can see only the text, not any pics, this saves them a TON of bandwidth from "lookyloos", becoming a member is free, you just need a legit e-mail address.

These same forums usually have a "Financial Contributors Only" section, in the bikes case, this is the "Best of Threads" where the best touring threads are moved to, once they have decided a thread rates that high, and they have an info forum, that is of all the kinds of things that constitute a knowledge base about bikes kind of thing, this is a VERY bandwidth heavy forum too, as it has lots of pics, scans of bike exploded diagrams, etc. Lastly the other forum they have for "Financial Contributors Only" is the classified, if you don't become a "Financial Contributor" then you cannot post there. This gives an advantage to sellers, as they reach a wide audience, of buyers, who can look, but have to contact the seller via PM.

These sites are all about $5 a year, and they survive nicely.

Just some insights into how other group sponsored sites are run, and run well.

Cheers!

[Keith Outten]

Stu,

The suggested donation of $6.00 per year is reasonable as you point out and if enough of our Members would donate anything our ability to grow and add new services like the Project Plans Forum would improve considerably.

If you visit our Laser Engraving and CNC Forum you will notice lots of drawings and artwork that has been uploaded by our Members. Some of the Corel Draw drawings have been very beneficial, especially to those who are just starting out and haven't had the time to build their graphics libraries. We have poems and prayers plaques in our archives and plenty of support files for engraving and routing. I would like to see us expand on this type of service with complete projects and pictures and eventually an index page that will make it easier to find a particular project.

A Community of this size could produce an amazing library of project drawings in a very short time. If each Member shared just one Project our Forum would be a very valuable resource for everyone in no time. The Project Plans Forum would be visable to everyone, the file attachments would only be accessible to Contributors.

Frank, it is unlikely that our Project Plans Forum could stand on its own and survive given the resources it takes to host such a graphic intensive project. Our new Forum will not be a stand alone entity and our survival will not depend on distribution of drawings and projects. Ours will be a new service that fits our Community and adds value like any other Forum here.

The new Project Plans Forum is the kind of project that I would like to see included in our Forums as we continue to grow. I am convinced that we need to continue to expand our services to the Woodworking Community by adding new features that are valuable when they fit our needs. The fact that this was one of our Members ideas is icing on the cake if you will, there are plenty of great ideas that our Members contribute each year...this one is within our range to accomplish right now.

.

[Frank Fusco]

With two Frank's here , I should clarify, my post was #42.
I should futher clarify that often when I post thoughts like I did there, it is not always an indication of my position on an issue. As a writer and former newspaper opinion columnist, I have been called a "catalyst". I'll take it as a compliment. Tossing out the idea we might have 'classes' of membership is fodder for thought and debate. I don't know if it is important or not. The notion that contributing might create a vested interest and potential legal problems for a privately owned forum is an unanswered question. The e-world is a black hole we have not yet completely explored.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

what the heck......it cost me .02 everytime i give advice now cliff`s wanting to pay folks for drawings ......i think the coolest part obout smc is everybodies willingness to share knowledge without compensation, besides i`d have to up the ante to 2.00 for folks to stomach my scribbling and i just don`t have the money to spare......02 tod

Awwww you guys just want to freeload off my plans to turn moldy old sawdust into 24 Ct gold and diamonds.

[Scott Coffelt]

I'll take a little different approach than the norm. Me personally, I am good with whatever the game plan is. Keep in mind there are those out there with not much in the way of extra funds. Sure would be a shame to exclude folks who maybe just can't afford to make donations, though they may in spirit or what not. Many of us can afford to give more cause we can, others just can't because for them it may be not buying some wood or something. I know for most of us $6 is not much but for some, it's everything. So just keep those thoughts in mine.

[Art Mulder]

I'm a member of some other forums, ...
These sites are all about $5 a year, and they survive nicely.

I'm in full agreement with Stu. And I think everyone should take a second look at his comments, as he hits all the points. These other websites are doing exactly what we're discussing, and it works well.

best,
...art