Festool VS. EZ Smart

[Per Swenson]

I Probably the only "safe" thing ever made by man is a padded cell with an anti-ligature door handle. Everything else brings with it the ability do harm to a lesser or greater degree.

Ahh, Ian,

Sadly No, this practice is not safe at all and can cause great damage to that
Human organ the brain. Although just short of organ failure or death.
Kinda Like rereading this F/E nonsense once a month.

Per

[russ bransford]

It's interesting that the FHB article really puts festool and eurekazone on the same team. Can we replace the TS on the jobsite? And for those with a hobby, can we live without the TS in the shop?

It feels like we're leading up to the big game and it's all talk for now, until the whistle blows.

How many have actually retired their TS? Why? space, difficult cuts, weight, etc.

Each time we go down this path, we run into too much testosterone and not enough sawdust. I can read what people are saying about their tools, but the whistle will blow sooner or later and somebody will have to make something other than a cutting remark.

Russ

[Ken Salisbury]

Each time we go down this path, we run into too much testosterone and not enough sawdust. I can read what people are saying about their tools, but the whistle will blow sooner or later and somebody will have to make something other than a cutting remark.

Russ

- - - AMEN !! - - -

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Russ,

How many have actually retired their TS? Why? space, difficult cuts, weight, etc.

I have a table saw in storage. If I needed to rip several hundred feet of long stock I would pull it out. For me it is the space it would take up in a shop which barely measures 11' 6" by the same.

So I use a BS as my main rip/resaw. Short pieces I do by hand. Small dimensioning of width I do by hand. Most all cross cuts are by hand. Some joinery is a combination of both BS and hand. Sometimes all on the BS, except fitting.

But I don't do sheet goods often. When I do it is 5x5 sheets of Baltic Birch. Those I typically breakdown using a handsaw, then trim to size on the BS. If I had a bunch to do infrequently, I would use one of my shop built guides and my circular saw [assuming I can find it].

If I had a lot to do now and again, I would consider something *like* the EZ/FT saw which could be easily set up and taken down. Same with site work.

If I had a lot to do consistently? My shop would be bigger and there would be some sort of TS in place.

Take care, Mike
who cannot believe he posted in a EZ/FT thread <g>...

[tod evans]

Kinda Like rereading this F/E nonsense once a month.

Per

here! here!

[Ian Barley]

Ahh, Ian,

Sadly No, this practice is not safe at all and can cause great damage to that
Human organ the brain. Although just short of organ failure or death.
Kinda Like rereading this F/E nonsense once a month.

Per

Per - You are indeed perfectly correct. Maybe I have been spending too much time in mine.

[Al Willits]

One of the problems with being on a forum for any length of time is its gonna start getting repetitious, and then we have the "oh no, not this again" whenever someone posts something that's been around for awhile.

Always easy to say "do a search" not always easy to actually do that search, especially if you don't know the key word to use.
Some forums get so much info its hard to find it all.

Would be nice if people would either just ignore posts that they find boring, or comment on a post without the emotion coming into play.
It also would be nice if some of the long timers would understand that just because it doesn't fit what they want to talk about or think should be discussed, that others may enjoy a post.

Personally I've learnt a lot from this forum, both with the search feature and asking though a post, I'd emagine I haven't asked anything that hasn't been talked about before, and if this is offesnsive to some, maybe this forum should be called "For master woodworkers only" but until that happens, I'll keep asking questions, and helping if I can.
For this I'm grateful.

Just a thought...

Al

[Burt Waddell]

Having been in a number of EZ/Festool threads, I've noticed a predictable pattern develop.

At the start of the thread, there are a number of good exchanges about the tools (Just like a good discussion should be).

Next becomes upset and turns the topic to personalities. The reason given is they are tired of...... In other cases, they have simply been beaten on the merits of the tools and won't bow out gracefully. Rather than say "You're correct." They resort of personal attacks.

At this point, others just quit posting to the thread or the moderators shut it down.

Go back and look at a few threads, you'll see the pattern. The comments by Dan in this thread are pointing in that direction. Look at his response to Dino and myself. Nothing was said that merited his response.

To keep these threads civil, people must attack the message not the messanger.

Burt

[Jim Dailey]

When I read the original post I started this thread with...

"Popcorn, a comfortable chair & cold beverages....." Because I knew where it would lead.....

Now.....

The popcorn has long gone stale like this posting....

The chair has gotten very uncomfortable many times....

The beverages are empty like much of the substance of this post....

LET'S PUT THIS POST TO BED!!! (sorry for shouting... but at least I did not shout in upper case bold black ink!!!)


jim

[Ian Barley]

Burt

For my own analysis of these threads - they never go south until somebody makes a post which breachs the TOS. Usually the one to do with direct commercial affiliation. Then somebody(ies) else feels they have to respond (BTDT). Then there are rattles flying out of prams left, right and centre. If the TOS get stuck to I suspect that one day we might make it all the way through and get a sensible discussion.
Just to save anybody looking it up TOS section E -1 relevant passage is

Posts made by
Members with direct commercial affiliation, and with the apparent intent of using SawMill Creek for the sole purpose of promoting a product or service will be subject to removal. Members with direct commercial affiliation are defined to be those Members who stand to benefit financially from such a promotion.

[Burt Waddell]

Ian,

In case you didn't read a recent post by Dino:

- I have no connection with EZ Smart. I have bought my EZ Smart equipment from 3 different sources. I did agree to offer a class at my shop but financial arrangements haven't been discussed.
- I have never met Dino

- I own both EZ and Festool Equipment.

- I support the EZ Equipment because I use it and believe in it.

[Dan Clark]

Russ,

Well said!

It's interesting that the FHB article really puts festool and eurekazone on the same team. Can we replace the TS on the jobsite? And for those with a hobby, can we live without the TS in the shop?

Like you, I'm wrestling with these too. We need to talk about the big issues:

- Can you create a "portable" woodshop that can be taken to a work site or set up quickly in your garage that allows you to do finish carpentry or fine woodworking?

- Can large, heavy tools like the table saw, bandsaw, jointer, drill press, and workbench be replaced with lighter, portable tools and STILL get excellent results?

Workbench magazine did an article in 2005 called "Euroshop The small shop that works big". Here's a PDF of the article:
http://www.festool.com.au/images/Aus...kbench2005.pdf

The first two pages are the most important and cover this concept. If you have good portable tools, disregard the last four pages which are focused Festool tools implementing the concept. In the pictures on the first two pages, it also shows a small Rikon planer/jointer, a space-saving triton wood-rack, a portable plywood cutting table, a portable DC, and a portable workbench, guide and router being used to route a board.

This particular article was the first time I'd seen the portability issue addressed. The article is how I became aware of Festools and how they were being positioned. Although I now like the Festools as products, it was the underlying concept of portability AND quality woodworking that attracted me because it met my needs.

Can you replace the Festools with another circular saw, EZ guides, a Fein DC, a Porter Cable router and another portable workbench? Absolutely! Whatever works best for you!

Is the Euro Shop concept viable? I think it is. But how do you implement it? It's not the tools, it's HOW you can use them. But the problem is...

If you look at the woodworking magazines, virtually ALL writers have 20-50 years experience with "big iron". E.g., "First ya take your board and slap it on the jointer. Then take it to your big ole 10" plainer. Then cut 'er down with your humongous table saw, cut notches wit' your 18" band saw, and drill them holes wit' your drill press." Like I have space for all that stuff!!!

I learned some techniques with my Festools, but that's maybe 1% of what I need to now. I'm looking for better solutions for jointing and planeing in a small space. A good, compact, movable router table for my Hitach router. How to cut quality holes without a drill press. There's lots more. I need better answers from other users.

And I'm NOT interested in marketing hype presented by someone trying to sell their products. I.e., "just buy my products and all your problems will go away!" NOT!

Each time we go down this path, we run into too much testosterone and not enough sawdust.

I'm not sure of your exact meaning, but it looks like you're referring to the old, "My table saw is bigger than your table saw!" I.e., real men have big tools!

It's great if you have enough space to bring in the big iron and if you can work in one place. That works for some people, but many of us don't have that luxury. My house is pretty good sized, but there's NO room to build a shop. Like Europeans and Asians, we Americans are living in smaller and smaller spaces.

Like you, I think we need to focus on the bigger issues rather than arguing about whether one tool is slightly better than another.

Regards,

Dan.

[Ken Salisbury]

OK - the thread has run it's course and we are back to nit-picking each other. This thread is closed to further posting.