OK..help me out here on sharpening....

[Dennis Peacock]

I spend an hour putting an edge on a plane iron.
I put the iron back into the handplane.
I push the plane across the wood.....and now that 1 hour labor edge on the plane iron is now shot...getting more and more dull by each stroke of the plane. Back to taking it apart, back to sharpening again, 1 hour later, repeat all steps above.
To me? Why should I spend $$$ on getting the best edge one could ever get when it will cut just as well with a minimum of fuss without the keenest edge you ever saw.??

Help me out here and educate me just a bit. My toughest part of all this "stuff" is that I read and read and find that you really aren't Neanderin' unless you can get that keen edge, cut, get that keen edge, cut...Or am I reading way too much into this whole process? I mean, I can get a razor sharp edge off the Tormek that will shave hair all day long. I can get a razor sharp edge off my cheap waterstones (read not Shapton).

Maybe I'm just getting frustrated in reading all this stuff about "it ain't sharp enough until".......I'm also planning on making me one of Tod's power stropping setups. I've seen his setup first hand and man what a difference in the time it took to get a nice hair pealing edge off of his strop.

A purist I am not....but I want to be better educated about all this and I don't want to have 60 seconds of handplane action and 1 hour sharpening action to only experience another 60 seconds of handplane action.

Teach this old dawg sumpin.....will ya? Pleez???

[tod evans]

dennis, i`ve not found a faster way to get a servicable edge than what i do.....if i do i`ll change....untill then this works for me. on my antiques i still do the arkansas stone and hand strop only because i use them for family projects and it makes me feel that i`ve given more of myself not because the edge cuts any better........02 tod

[Jeff Farris]

Just curious, Dennis. Why are you going to make one of Tod's strops when you already have a leather strop on your TORMEK?

[Jerry Palmer]

Sharpness is relative to the job at hand. If a certain level of sharp is getting the results you want, then that is sharp enough. True, the edge does begin to deteriorate with the very first swipe across the wood, but even smoothing the very toughest wood I've ever used, I get more than a few minutes of planing between rehoning, and the re-honing takes only a few seconds on my highest grit not Shapton or even Norton stones.

I've always had something of an issue with some of the "required" sharpness levels I read about on the net and in magazines though I personally recently picked up an 8K grit waterstone. While I'm sure that in days of old that a craftsman might have occassionally used a strop on a plane iron or chisel, the very finest stones typically available were much courser than even what we call "medium" stones today.

Sharpening for the 17th -18th Century Craftsman was going from a course person powered grinding wheel to one or maybe two whet stones for refining the edge. And they did some pretty fanciful and high class work with those edges. While I can imagine them taking a few swipes with a chisel on the stones occassionally, the effort of popping out the wedge to resharpen a plane iron, resetting the wedge, and messing with getting the depth just right seems like a whole lot of time if performed more than a couple times a day.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Well, Dennis, that's what edges do when used: they start going dull the instant they are used.

Ok. Sorry for the smart alec answer. There can be several factors. What kind of plane and or blade is in the plane? How long did the edge last? What kind of wood?

I suppose the 60 seconds of use is hyperpole, but if it is dulling to the point of not servicable really quickly--10 to 20 minutes in really hard wood--it is either the blade isn't really getting sharp, the edge is being subbed over or the plane blade is suspect.

Do you currently hone on your stone following the Tormek? The leather wheel? Do you use a honing guide--which one if so?

fwiw, popping hair is not a good indicator of sharp. Edge retention is half of the indicator, the steel the other. Shaving an end grain of a Pine board is better--but a waste of time.

Take care, Mike

[Steven Wilson]

Assuming I'm using the right blade for the job I don't find that it takes me an hour to resharpen a blade - downtime at most, unless I nick an edge, is 5 minutes. That's going back to the 5000 grit Shapton and moving up through the grits. To get the edge back on a chisel takes even less time. Sure beats working with dull tools.

[Steve Clardy]

My blades come off the Lee Valley MKII, onto the plane.
Just a minute or so.

[Don Baer]

Dennis,
I certainly am not a Niander expert but I look at my planes and chisels the same way I do my turning tools, as long as I can make curlies then they don't need to be sharpened. JMHO

[Mike Henderson]

Dennis, It shouldn't take you an hour to sharpen a plane blade, except maybe the first time when you have to flatten the back. I can think of two things which might be causing you problems: (1) if you're using a bevel down plane, you may need to increase the bevel angle - use a 30 or 35 degree bevel on bevel down planes, or (2) maybe you're trying to do too much when you sharpen - that is, maybe your standards are a bit too high.

I only resharpen when I notice the plane not cutting as well as I'd like. Then, I go to my 5K and/or 8K stones and touch up the bevel - doesn't take more than 5 minutes max, usually less.

I use the LV MKII honing guide when I sharpen plane blades.

Mike

[Phil Hirz]

Dennis,

Can you provide more information on what you are specifically doing? What is your sharpening process? What do you do in the hour it takes you to resharpen? What stones are you using and what bevel angles are you putting on your blade? Are you using a jig or honing by hand? What plane are you using? What wood are you trying to cut? I am sure that the people on this forum can give you some tips to cut down your sharpening time and make your edge last longer.

-Phil

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Dennis,

I look at sharpening as something to be done and completed as quickly as possible. If a given level of sharpening gives you the results you need on a board then the plane, chisel, or whatever is sharp enough. I have a cynical friend who once observed that there are multiple hobbies in woodworking,eg: sharpening vs using, making your project vs shop building, designing vs building. Now obviously these are somewhat tongue in cheek, but you get the drift. I've always maintained that sharpening can become a fetish.

A couple of useful things to help you out though:

Remove the blade with its chip breaker in place and touch up the blade on a strop with half a dozen strokes well before you think it is needed and you will have to fully sharpen less often. This should take less than a minute.

Sharpen only using the finest stone or grit you finished with last time and see how it works. If it does the job stay with this technique until something changes. If there is a change, drop back to the next coarser grit, use it , and then finish with your finest grit. There is no need to go back to square one each and every time unless you really chip up the blade, drop it, or have some other catastrophy.

Seek out someone who has experience and spend part of a day learning how they keep their sharpening efficient.

As Mike W. jokingly mentioned, sharpening is a job that you will have to deal with as long as you work wood. Think hard and experiment to find a quick way that works for you. There is no right or wrong in this, only the results matter.

[tod evans]

dave, that`s well written sound advice! tod

[Zahid Naqvi]

I would offer my services but I am a scary sharper, and that too with limited experience. Perhaps one of these weekends in your shop, after we get done with our on-calls. And I do have a hand plane to deliver.

[Jeff Farris]

I spend an hour putting an edge on a plane iron.
I put the iron back into the handplane.
I push the plane across the wood.....and now that 1 hour labor edge on the plane iron is now shot...getting more and more dull by each stroke of the plane. Back to taking it apart, back to sharpening again, 1 hour later, repeat all steps above.
To me? Why should I spend $$$ on getting the best edge one could ever get when it will cut just as well with a minimum of fuss without the keenest edge you ever saw.?? ...

I think Dennis was exaggerating on both his 1 hour and his 60 seconds. But, I understand his issue, and there are several factors at play here. You get into the Zen of sharpening and take the edge down with ever decreasing grit size, up to the finest available stone, being ever so careful not to touch the edge to anything -- then you put it in a plane and jam it into a piece of hardwood (again -- exaggerating on the "jamming" ) Another issue at play here is the quality of the steel involved. Some steels - even those with the same composition - will hold an edge of say 28 degrees for a very long time (relatively speaking), but an edge of 23 degrees dulls very quickly.

I'll go along with several of the responses on this thread that lean toward creating a serviceable edge as quickly as possible. However, I think each indvidual piece of tool steel needs to be "read" as to how it likes to work. If you have a chisel or iron that seems to dull very quickly, try honing just a bit more angle on it, and see what that does. You may find that a very slight tweak to the angle will yield a much longer lasting edge.

[tod evans]

I'll go along with several of the responses on this thread that lean toward creating a serviceable edge as quickly as possible. However, I think each indvidual piece of tool steel needs to be "read" as to how it likes to work. If you have a chisel or iron that seems to dull very quickly, try honing just a bit more angle on it, and see what that does. You may find that a very slight tweak to the angle will yield a much longer lasting edge.

jeff, this is sound advice too! i know if i`m working on gnarley stuff and dulling the blade quickly, whether it be a plane iron or carving chisel, i`ll just instinctively put more steel behind the edge when i touch it up. but lotsa folks are set on the "math" of sharpening and forget to pay attention to how the edge is doing in service....thanks! tod