A suggestion

[Jon Eckels]

I run another forum completely unrelated to woodworking. It's fairly heavily visited, although not as busy as this forum - about 7500 Members / 3500 of which are active. It's been online since 2000, and the bulk of it's members are yonger folks ages 15-30, since it's a video game based site. Therefore, there's a lot of stupidity posted. But amazingly there's also a lot of really rational, thought out discussions that go on for pages, and sometimes the discussions turn into mayo/mustard threads, where everyone seems to lose their mind.

We have a much larger moderating staff than SMC, due in part because many of us don't have the time to sit devoted to the forum, and don't have time to watch it 24/7. In fact, lately i've visited it less than i even visit SMC.

One of our rules is that we never delete threads. Ever. We also don't delete posts. The reason behind this is we never want to forget what's been said before. Moderators don't need to be protectors of the public to shield the members from information, or non-information whatever the case may be. If a thread gets out of hand it gets closed. If a thread has been started for the clear purpose of advertising, or the like, it gets closed and moved to a forum called "The Trash Can".

If for nothing else, we hold on to everything for posterity. And to say "Look at what's happened to this topic before, if you want to discuss it again, don't make the same mistakes."

I've never seen a forum that deletes as many posts as this forum has, and for reasons that I don't barely see as "infractions" of the TOS. Just because a topic's mood goes south doesn't mean it negates all the information and miles of text within it. What's wrong with just closing topics?

If for nothing else, the old topic serves as a map to what path not to take, when the topic comes up again.

Just my opinion, but understand that it's an opinion from experience, and it's an experience with people who are supposed to be more immature than the population here.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Jon, that may be sane advice.

I suspect you will get PM's telling you so. Some may post in this thread in support too. I am.

I also suspect you already know what the official response will be.

Take care, Mike

[Ken Salisbury]

Jon,

We have our standards, you have yours.

We have a place where these threads are put - I assume like your "trash can". It is the Moderator's Forum which is only accessible by the Admin and the Moderators. They are not just thrown away.

Here is another thread which will eventually bring the disgruntled out of the woodwork.

Don't let it get outta hand. I will leave it here for the time being.

"Your Friendly Moderator"

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Jon, I completely agree with that philosophy. 100%.

I suspect your thoughts will soon make it to the "trash can", though. Shame.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Here is another thread which will eventually bring the disgruntled out of the woodwork

Not everyone who dissagrees with the status quo is disgruntled, Ken. Not all lurk in wait for a chance to voice a difference of opinion.

I actually think that your opinion of people who, and or the way you elect to characterize people who, think differently prevents many from expressing a difference of opinion. Tis a pity, really.

We all know the manner in which moderating is applied here will not change. But sometimes that is not even as much the issue as much as being able to express one's opinion about the status quo. Adding insult in the guise of moderating only fuels some people's feelings about the moderation.

Take care, Mike

[Steve Clardy]

Not everyone who dissagrees with the status quo is disgruntled, Ken. Not all lurk in wait for a chance to voice a difference of opinion.

I actually think that your opinion of people who, and or the way you elect to characterize people who, think differently prevents many from expressing a difference of opinion. Tis a pity, really



Well said Mike.

I also feel that there are a lot of members here that do not post their opinions here out of fear of being downgraded, getting their hands slapped, or getting their posts deleted.

Different opinions, ideas have always been a good thing

[John Bailey]

I understand the logic in what is being said. However, I like it the way it is. It's the only place that I feel doesn't get out of hand. I know I may miss some views, but I've got other places to get those views. This is the place I go when I want to stay on topic. I haven't agreed with all the decisions of the moderators, but I have always understood their reasoning.

So, I for one, hope it stays the same "over" moderated site.

John

[tod evans]

in my short tenure here i`ve noticed two kinds of "moderation" or "censorship" one has to do with the members not taking the time to clearly voice their thoughts in a manner acceptable to the terms of service, the other has to do with "woodworking-forum-politics"......the posts deleeted do to forum politics are what really chaps my derriere!
even and consistant "moderation" would be perfectly acceptable to me but when saying "boo" on thread x is accepted but saying "boo" on thread y is deleeted, i personally have issues with this.......i try very hard to couch my opinions well within the terms of service as do countless others but when posts or threads are jerked because of their message, even though the message is well spoken i believe this is counterproductive to the forum as a whole....02 tod

[Ken Salisbury]

in my short tenure here i`ve noticed two kinds of "moderation" or "censorship" one has to do with the members not taking the time to clearly voice their thoughts in a manner acceptable to the terms of service, the other has to do with "woodworking-forum-politics"......the posts deleeted do to forum politics are what really chaps my derriere!
even and consistant "moderation" would be perfectly acceptable to me but when saying "boo" on thread x is accepted but saying "boo" on thread y is deleeted, i personally have issues with this.......i try very hard to couch my opinions well within the terms of service as do countless others but when posts or threads are jerked because of their message, even though the message is well spoken i believe this is counterproductive to the forum as a whole....02 tod

If I had any idea what you are saying I might respond, however I am confused.

[Steve Clardy]

Tods post was clear to me.

We are on one end Ken. You are on another end.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Tods post was clear to me.

We are on one end Ken. You are on another end.

Yep, crystal clear to me as well, but his spelling needs work............ (just kidding!)

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Another vote for crystal clarity.

[Chuck Hanger]

Well said Mike.

I also feel that there are a lot of members here that do not post their opinions here out of fear of being downgraded, getting their hands slapped, or getting their posts deleted.

Different opinions, ideas have always been a good thing [/quote]

Totally agree Steve. Having spent a great deal of my adult life in some level of management for a major manufacturer I enjoy the debates that I have read. It is interesting how some of the professionals of the world handle a "conflict of interest". I do not want the trash talk and bashing and totally agree with deleating it. But as you state I have stayed my distance for fear of getting "kicked out" of the member status. TOS is just that and I will abide by it. I do not want the pop-ups constantly when it comes to advertising, but what is it when you sign your posts with a well know company logo?
As Tod would say, just my .02
Chuck

[Erik Rudd]

If I had any idea what you are saying I might respond, however I am confused.

The post was clear, the meaning easy to understand unless you're in the shadow of the topic....

[tod evans]

If I had any idea what you are saying I might respond, however I am confused.

ken,
we as members do not get to see who deleets what or for what reason unless one of the mods chooses to tell us so. whether or not the inconsistencies are all from one moderator or from several is something i`m not able to say. by forum politics i`m refering to some of the preferential treatment some of the potential advertisers get in threads that generate debate. just in case you haven`t noticed there are several folks who have chosen to abstain from this forum in the last several months who where regular contributers, and darn good ones i might add, mainly because their posts are either edited or deleeted for expressing their opinions well within the terms of service, ie; no cussin` slander, ect. these folks weren`t "me too" kind of posters, they would go to great length to explain work processes and machinery design, each of us benifited from their input......now they`re gone...............why? in favor of advertising dollars? it sure looks that way from here.
if i`m all wet it wouldn`t be the first time so please feel free to correct me, but if i`m right..........is this the direction the moderators wish to lead the forum? ........only my .02 tod